2007 MY Defender

[JourneyMan]

Hi,

I'm new to Defender ownership and took the plunge last year with a new 90 XS and have been nothing but impressed with the cars abilities so far.

From delivery the car has had paint defect on the roof along the seam, the dealer have repaired it once before and I noticed the paint was starting to come off again a couple of weeks ago and its gone back again for another respray.

There is also daylight visible from the bottom corner of the passenger door (closest to the A-Post) and co-incidently there was also white crust in this area, where the black angled vertical post on the A-Post, just inside the door shut where it comes down to meet the floor.

I have obviously raised this with the supplying Dealer and they have said, yes, thats quite normal (crust) and within the manufacturing tolerance of the vehicle and they all are like that (daylight), which sounds like absolute bull@£$%.

I'd appreciate any input from other owners of 2007 MY as to whether they've had the same issues.

Thanks

[TJ101]

My door seals etc, are fine,, (110XS) must have been the first thing i noticed, over the 06 TD5 i had, that had "daylight" around the door edges !!

Some of the advertising blurb, was harping on about how the new steel doors seal better, so they should be sorted, and not fobbing you off

[BogMonster]

All Defenders come with daylight as standard because the factory are too goddamned lazy to build them properly - the difference is whether or not the dealer does the PDI properly and goes round blocking the holes up in the corners as well as other bits and pieces that aren't properly finished ex-factory, like putting the box on straight on 130HCPUs etc etc!

[JourneyMan]

Thanks Tim,

My concern is that moisture is getting in and that's what has caused the white crust to form where the A-Post meets the floor, to a large extent its hidden by the carpet mat, the Dealers response was yes thats normal, yet if its normal I'd expect to see the same on the Drivers side also.

I understand they all have there quirks and a number of people seem to have had issues with the gearbox but I've found as long as you drive it as suggested by Mr Woo then it seems nice and smooth.

The paint around the seam where the sloping part of the roof meets the flat part just seems to keep cracking, you can see what looks like a orange/yellow foam underneath.

[The Badger]

Hello

On my 07 90 daylight was standard, but the dealer re-fitted the rubber seal arround the door.

However, my local dealer is full out plop, they have lied to me about the delivery date, the fitting of additional parts etc etc. So much so that im not wanting to go back to them for anything...

Anyhow, they should re-fit the seals as daylight is not standerd unless your truck is getting on a bit

[MINESAPINT]

I have bought 7 brand new 109's / 110's over the last 25 years and can say with substantial degree of confidence the problems I have experienced with the last 3 (most recent) with regard to the sort of problem mentioned in this thread are much more common. The vehicle I have now is in fact a replacement for one that was delivered with 23 faults I listed, from paint problems, leaks to a missing drivers mirror!. After 3 visits to the dealership when they failed to rectify the faults I decided enough was enough and a new vehicle was presented, at additional cost I might add!. The dealer ensured the replacement was of marketable quality before I took delivery. I have vowed never to buy another new Land Rover because of my more recent experiences. I always feel when you go to a dealership with a complaint it is a them and us situation particularly if you are a lowly defender owner and have not splashed out £70K on the latest Range Rover.

Additionally as a defender ages other problems manifest themselves which would not be so if more care was taken when the vehicles were built. I refer particularly to galvanic corrosion although I am certainly no expert on the subject I do have a basic understanding. I can only refer to my vehicle and what I have been told about others, I do not have up to date information about current construction methods at Land Rover. The problems I am about to describe may have been overcome with the new models!!!!!

My vehicle (2001 defender) has come out in a rash of blisters around the door bottoms, side body cappings, rear lateral & vertical body cappings as well as other places. I am advised by a reputable Land Rover refurbisher the problem is as a result of the vehicles being built with a combination of steel & aluminium in many cases bolted or riveted together with no attempt being made to provide a barrier between the 2 different metals. He advises the vehicles are assembled bare metal to bare metal then painted afterwards which I find difficult to comprehend. This invites galvanism which leads to the corrosion to which I refer. The solution to this problem is expensive and requires the whole vehicle body dismantling and all body cappings galvanising, complete set of new door skins and when re assembled great care taken to provide barriers between the different metals so the same does not happen again. The vehicle then needs a full respray. I am advised to have the vehicle resprayed without attending to the underlying problems is a complete waste of money as problems return within weeks.

MINESAPINT

[jimmy_neutron]

Amazing stuff .. I have got this rash on the top and bottom of my doors, and my back door is just about dead.

I'm just about to buy a replacement back door from paddocks or somewhere like that. Any advice to prevent the bubbling happening again after i fit my new door ?

[MINESAPINT]

Must make it clear I am no expert.

If the new door is manufactured bare metal to bare metal as I am led to believe is usually the case it is only a matter of time before the whole process starts over again. Say 3-4 years before the blistering starts to appear (externally) at the door bottoms. Apparently you can fit new skins to doors and during this process you would have the opportunity to install the all important barrier between the aluminium & steel. What encourages the galvanic corrosion (electrolysis) is when water and in particular salty water comes between the aluminium & steel so any attempt to keep the water out should pay dividends. I think it would be a good idea to strip the linings from the new doors & give the frames & skins a good sorting with Waxoil.

I am sure someone has more knowledge & experience than I do of this problem & I look forward to reading someone elses 2 penneth in due course.

It would be unreasonable for me/us to expect our vehicles to last indefinately but I feel this problem is/was knowingly built into the vehicles.

Incidentally my interest/knowledge of electrolysis is as a result of owning a steel fishing boat. Below the waterline it is necessary to fit zinc sacrificial anodes which in fact protects the hull & prop. The anodes don't last long though & need replacing every year or 2.

MINESAPINT

[Happyoldgit]

So, back to 2007 Defenders ...

[Mack]

Hello:

I have a brand new 110" with the very same details. The roof seals cracks because the rear plate is too wide compared with the front panel. I glued some thick rubber to seal the "hole". Anyway, every Defender I have seen has these holes. I do not know what is the idea.

regards

mch

Hi,

I'm new to Defender ownership and took the plunge last year with a new 90 XS and have been nothing but impressed with the cars abilities so far.

From delivery the car has had paint defect on the roof along the seam, the dealer have repaired it once before and I noticed the paint was starting to come off again a couple of weeks ago and its gone back again for another respray.

There is also daylight visible from the bottom corner of the passenger door (closest to the A-Post) and co-incidently there was also white crust in this area, where the black angled vertical post on the A-Post, just inside the door shut where it comes down to meet the floor.

I have obviously raised this with the supplying Dealer and they have said, yes, thats quite normal (crust) and within the manufacturing tolerance of the vehicle and they all are like that (daylight), which sounds like absolute bull@£$%.

I'd appreciate any input from other owners of 2007 MY as to whether they've had the same issues.

Thanks

[JourneyMan]

Hello

On my 07 90 daylight was standard, but the dealer re-fitted the rubber seal arround the door.

However, my local dealer is full out plop, they have lied to me about the delivery date, the fitting of additional parts etc etc. So much so that im not wanting to go back to them for anything...

Anyhow, they should re-fit the seals as daylight is not standerd unless your truck is getting on a bit

Sounds like a trend emerging here, my dealer has been a complete disappointment from beginning to end, from never returning calls to missed delivery dates, etc...

They were still PDI'g and applying the paint protector when I arrived to collect the car, despite having 2 weeks notice of when I was going to collect it.

Theres been no offer of remedial work to replace the door seals, just the usual Dealer response of all is normal.

I have officially rejected the vehicle in writing and asked for a refund, but surprisingly (sarcasm) they have declined, haven't offered a replacement car so I've been advised to take them to court. All I want is to get the money back to buy exactly the same car, hopefully this time without faults, but from a Dealer who cares.

Anybody had any success going down this route?

[Happyoldgit]

^^^If I were you and a dealer messed me about I would cut out the middle man and write to Land Rover direct.

[Freddy]

I am somewhat embrassed to say this here - but if it was buying new, I'd have to buy a Toyota.

That said, I like my Landy (E-reg).

[JourneyMan]

^^^If I were you and a dealer messed me about I would cut out the middle man and write to Land Rover direct.

Steve,

To be honest, I have spoken to Land Rover Customer Care, while they've been very helpful they've stayed very much on the fence and have said they can't force the Dealer to do anything as they're a franchise, the Dealer doesn't return calls to LR Customer Care either.

I've read DanielTD5 woe's with his 2007 Defender and he seems to have done quite well with LRCC, so far, in my case, they've been a bit to impartial.

[Happyoldgit]

Then go further up the chain both at franchise & LR and kick up a stink there, threaten that you'll go public etc etc. That's what I did when they tried to fob me off a a few years ago, once they realise you know what you're about and mean business ...and if you have a legitimate case, then they should see sense.

[MINESAPINT]

As I said earlier my vehicle was replaced when the dealer failed to satisfy requirements ref its list of 23 faults. However this was not straightforward and an additional charge was payable. It was 7 years ago but if my memory serves me well Land Rover accepted the vehicle was not up to their usual high standard! and issued me with a voucher for £2,500 to be used to trade my new Land Rover in for another new land rover. The catch was the voucher was only redeemable at the dealer who sold the vehicle in the first place. I think they offered me a trade in price for my new faulty Land Rover of £4,000 less than I had paid a few weeks previously (well it was a heap of s*$£) which meant I had to find another £1,500 to have a vehicle on the road in the condition it should have been in in the first place.

As I also said earlier I have bought 7 new Land Rovers over the last 25 yrs but enough is enough.

Sorry if I seemed to go off on one earlier but Journeyman mentioned the white furry/powdery substance appearing on his new vehicle. This IS normal for Land Rovers but does that mean it is acceptable?????????. I failed to make it clear in my earlier posting but the white furry stuff is directly related to the door problems. Dissimilar metals in contact causing electrolysis which in turn causes oxidisation/corrosion. The white fuzzy stuff is the equivalent of rust if the metal that is oxidising happened to be steel. The more noble metal in this case probably steel is eating away at the less noble metal probably zinc or aluminium. This process is assisted by the prescence of water particularly salty water ie in winter and the fact that the vehicle body & chassis are used to return the electrical current to the battery a practice not acceptable on a boat where we have what is known as an insulated return.

MINESAPINT

[Top90]

I'm amazed so many people have problems with dealers, mine have always been good.

I picked up my 90 on Saturday after they fixed a PAS leak (first fault after 7k miles) and it was valeted inside and out with two gallons more in the tank than I left it with. But they did collect it with the fuel light on.

Richard

[tacr2man]

These things have become the ''norm'' a lot more frequently as time has gone by with land rover,

If you go back to series vehicles the doors have lasted a lot longer , my 110 (1986) still has all original doors etc, no rust including chassis. No gaps no leaks (mind you it was built by landrover for landrover)

When looking inside door frame I can see the ''mastic'' between the door frames and skin .

The defender was built with a lot thinner aluminium than the early 110 models which still used the original thickess of birmabright , that could be a factor as well .

The reason the franchises dont want to spend a lot of time on the rectification of faults is that they have rates for the job set by landrover , and if they spend too much time they are losing money .

Its a short sighted view cause in the end they dont lose money but customers

Toyota : dealers governed just as tightly by Toyota, look at a Land cruiser servicing schedule (needed to be religiously adhered toa or your warranty gets kicked back) by the time you have owned it for a few miles and years you could have bought a second vehicle .

[JourneyMan]

As I said earlier my vehicle was replaced when the dealer failed to satisfy requirements ref its list of 23 faults. However this was not straightforward and an additional charge was payable. It was 7 years ago but if my memory serves me well Land Rover accepted the vehicle was not up to their usual high standard! and issued me with a voucher for £2,500 to be used to trade my new Land Rover in for another new land rover. The catch was the voucher was only redeemable at the dealer who sold the vehicle in the first place. I think they offered me a trade in price for my new faulty Land Rover of £4,000 less than I had paid a few weeks previously (well it was a heap of s*$£) which meant I had to find another £1,500 to have a vehicle on the road in the condition it should have been in in the first place.

As I also said earlier I have bought 7 new Land Rovers over the last 25 yrs but enough is enough.

Sorry if I seemed to go off on one earlier but Journeyman mentioned the white furry/powdery substance appearing on his new vehicle. This IS normal for Land Rovers but does that mean it is acceptable?????????. I failed to make it clear in my earlier posting but the white furry stuff is directly related to the door problems. Dissimilar metals in contact causing electrolysis which in turn causes oxidisation/corrosion. The white fuzzy stuff is the equivalent of rust if the metal that is oxidising happened to be steel. The more noble metal in this case probably steel is eating away at the less noble metal probably zinc or aluminium. This process is assisted by the prescence of water particularly salty water ie in winter and the fact that the vehicle body & chassis are used to return the electrical current to the battery a practice not acceptable on a boat where we have what is known as an insulated return.

MINESAPINT

You say your piece MP, I appreciate everyones input on this. I'm new to Land Rover ownership and bought new with a view to looking after it and keeping it for life.

I've not been put off by the car in any way, it puts a grin on my face everytime I drive it, just the Dealer and Land Rover's apathetic response so far.

What I can't understand is if its normal why is it only happening on one side of the vehicle, surely this suggests that car on the nearside hasn't been constructed properly and as the door deal isn't sealing properly its allowing moisture in to this area and causing this white beard.

I've been advised by Trading Standards and a Solicitor to take them to court for a full refund but why I have go through this Sabre rattling is madness.

I'd been interested to know who TOP90's dealer is?

[Top90]

My dealer is Lookers in Hadleigh, Essex. I have always had a good relationship with them so continue to use them even though I'm now closer to another Lookers dealer.

Both defenders I've bought new (the only two cars in my life) there I have always had a good look at before driving away due to what you hear/read about LR build quality. They have both been good ones though.

The courtesy car (RR Vogue) came from Enterprise though as they do the service for Landrover Assistance.

Richard

[alantd]

... The defender was built with a lot thinner aluminium than the early 110 models which still used the original thickess of birmabright , that could be a factor as well . ...

New Defenders have steel doors.

[davidfox123]

Dealers will have to cooperate if you push hard enough, I speak from experience with 2 new Discovery's which ended up with a full refund towards a Range Rover. I actually got a new Discovery even though the first one had done 12k miles, it was sooooo bad. Don't accept cr*p service from dealers - insist on dealing with the Dealer Principal & don't threaten what you won't do, ie if you say you'll sue then issue papers!

[JourneyMan]

Dealers will have to cooperate if you push hard enough, I speak from experience with 2 new Discovery's which ended up with a full refund towards a Range Rover. I actually got a new Discovery even though the first one had done 12k miles, it was sooooo bad. Don't accept cr*p service from dealers - insist on dealing with the Dealer Principal & don't threaten what you won't do, ie if you say you'll sue then issue papers!

I have been dealing with the Dealer Principal, hes the one that said all this normal....

I have every intention of seeing this one through to end and by the looks of it, it will be through the courts. I can't afford to pay the best part of £25K for a car that the paint keeps cracking on the roof and additional venting at the bottom of the door.

Can you tell me whether you rejected your Disco and what was the Dealers initial response?

[davidfox123]

This was back in 1996 but they offered to replace a 200tdi with the "revolutionary" 300, it also leaked and was just as bad. They lent me a new p38a for a couple of months and in the end it was agreed that they would credit back the cost against a new RR, which I did. A design fault doesn't make it acceptable. I also had a problem with the gearbox on a new TD5 90 which I bought 3 years ago, wouldn't accept that the change from 2nd to 3rd should be that bad, again agreed to replace the box. Actually sold it before it got done. I've not found the service at LR dealers worse than any other make, I'm a serial car changer (ask my wife!!!) I've owned over 45 different cars so far. My opinion Audi/BMW worst & Jag best.