clutches

[white90]

Standard 90-110 against a Valeo 130 clutch and a pic of the flywheel re faced at Pook Engineering and flywheel pre machining

[gwyn lewis]

Just had a quick look through this

the valeo clutch you are fitting i thought they where smaller than the AP BB clutches

valeo plate 9.25 inch

AP BB plate 9.5 inch

this is why i always fit AP BB clutches as there is more surface contact/more bite on flywheel and cover

i have had many customers fitted there own clutch and they have started slipping after a short time

i have put this down to not enough freeplay in the clutch pedal once we adjusted it properly they

where ok

you have to allow the thrust bearing to float and not put pressure on the cover if it wont self

adjust the clutch will start slipping and the thrust bearing will get hot and melt the plastic as

it is in contact all the time

when you fit the clutch and use it for a day or two check there is no back pressure in the pipes

it means all the fluid you are pushing down to the slave cyl is not returning back into the master

cyl and holding pressure on the thrust bearing

you can do this by loosening one of the pipes if fluid squirts out the fluid is not returning

it could be a collapsed flexi hose inside you need to check this after the hose

one problem i have had time to time is the one way valve in the master cyl not allowing

the fluid back and holding pressure in the pipes once the vehicle gets hot everything

expands and makes it a lot worse

if it was a manual adjust clutch you would have to shorten the clutch push rod as the

clutch wears but LRs dont have the system so it relies on self adjust and you cant

see it

if you want to check you can drill a hole in the bell housing in line with the slave cyl

to push a screwdriver in to see if you can push the piston/rod back in

hope that will help a bit

Gwyn Lewis

[gwyn lewis]

forgot to mention

if you want a lighter clutch pedal you can fit a 1 inch bore slave cyl FTC5071

it will go straight on a 200 tdi not sure about a 300

and if you want to change gear quicker off road you only want about 2 to 3 inch of

pedal travel put a block under the pedal to stop it going to the floor

it does work(if rob sees this he will agree as i did it to his when i drove for him)

gwyn

[Paul]

the valeo clutch you are fitting i thought they where smaller than the AP BB clutches

valeo plate 9.25 inch

AP BB plate 9.5 inch

this is why i always fit AP BB clutches as there is more surface contact/more bite on flywheel and cover

Nah, the Valeo 130 clutch is 9.5" just like the others:

Hey Tony, that first picture is a bit of déjà vu for me:

In exactly the same way, the AP brand clutch failed very early with no visible signs of excessive wear. It simply started to slip under load, and I had plenty of freeplay in the pedal adjustment.

As I said before, so far the Valeo clutch has been fine despite getting a thrashing in the sand, but now that I've said that...

Paul

[western]

I've has a B&B clutch fail last year, it strarted to slip badly underload, changed hose/master cylinder & re adjusted the pedal to attempt to stop it slipping all failed, only a new Valeo clutch cured it. so far it's been fine, my 200Tdi's first clucth [valeo] fitted by LR when the engine was new lasted for years before it had to be changed.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Update

As I and Mr Ciderman both said - ceramic Paddle clutches do eat flywheels,

Having the TBox and Primary Box out at the mo a check of the Clutch was in order

The flywheel is "Toast" see pics below, the surface of the FW has a 1mm grove

cut into it as tho its been on a lathe, plus heat cracks, so off to the bin with

a picture just before that to show what you'll be in for with a Paddle clutch

Having said that I wouldn't run anything else, make sure you have sprung

centre or it will eat your mainshaft splines too

Thought this may be of interest, and it means I'm down now to my last 5 FWs

Nige

[Les Henson]

Obviously rubbish Britpart flywheels - bluddy cheapskate

Les

[white90]

That'll skim surely?

[ciderman]

Nige , Dont look that bad

If that was on an Hgv , I would have sent it on again

There was a product on the market years ago to acompany a ceramic clutch , A flywheel saver , It was a bolt on shim , But they were carp and never realy took off

[John_T]

Changed the clutch in my TD5 90 at 85,000miles. The clutch was still fine with pleny of lining left but the dual mass flywheel was screwed. Land Rover wanted £250 for a clutch kit (OEM- Valeo) so being a cheapskate I bought a Motaquip kit for £79. When I opened the box.......behold...a Valeo clutch! Been fine ever since and it is now on 108000 miles.

[FridgeFreezer]

Weird. Difficult to do any sort of reasonable diagnosis 2nd hand over the web.

At a guess, the incorrect adjustment has made it slip, and even ~300 miles could conceivably have overheated the materials past the point of no return.

I changed my (AP/B&B) clutch as a precaution this year to stick a Rakeway release bearing in, and the one that came out was like new, that's after 3 years and at least 15,000 hard miles behind a 4.6. Not millions I'll grant you, but considering it's been hoofed about like a loon for 3 years on and off road it was surprisingly intact. I put a B&B one back in and it's done more than 300 miles since then with no issues.

A couple of thoughts:

- TDi's seem to be harder on clutches because of the lumpy nature of the power (4 big thwacks per rev) and the fact you have to spin the turbo up and slip the clutch a bit more often. My mate's TGV eats drivetrain bits all day long, yet I know people with more powerful V8's who have no issues.

- Is your clutch 9.5" because it's defender or because it's TDi? I'm fairly sure mine is 10.5" a-la RR which makes a big difference to surface area. I don't know if there's room for making one fit.

- What's your road gearing like if you have 3.54 diffs and big tyres? Have you swapped transfer boxes?

[henk]

Valeo website quotes 267mm or 10.5" for diameter TD5 clutch

[JonR]

forgot to mention

if you want a lighter clutch pedal you can fit a 1 inch bore slave cyl FTC5071

it will go straight on a 200 tdi not sure about a 300

gwyn

Which push rod should be used with the above mentioned slave cylinder when fitted to a 200Tdi?

Just about to change my slave cylinder so interested to know how much of a difference the slightly larger bore makes.

Jon.

[Rotor]

They don't do them anymore do they?

Bearmach have stock.

[Daan]

I changed my clutch last april for the 130 version with rakeway bearing (300 TDI). The old one looked like new, I couldn't measure a difference in thickness between new and old.

I reckon it is down to drive style and tune of engine (which is bog standard in mine). I do not remember ever slipping my clutch, and this also got something to do with what ratios you run (4.75 on mine) and how much weight you are moving.

Still, as mentioned the pedal adjustment is important as well.

Daan

[FridgeFreezer]

I reckon it is down to drive style

Burn the witch! Burn him!

[bill van snorkle]

Yea, Six months is bad and with the underdrive it should be having a relatively easy time of things. After 12 months mine didn't slip but it was definitely not feeling like it should so I changed it. See how it goes, the paddle clutch will last longer its just a case of getting used to it I spose.

Until your post I was going to suggest that the premature failures must be due to inadequate gearing for the conditions, in light of the fact that the 9 1/2'' clutch in my 2A with Warner T98 gearbox and crawler box has been operating reliably for ten years now, despite the fact that aside from being a daily driver in mixed country/ urban conditions for nine, it spends a lot of time pulling Ti Trees out of the ground by the hundreds on my 40 acre block.

BTW,some very early series 3's had steel instead of plastic thrust bearing carriers.These would occasionally rust onto the slide tube leading to clutch failure.

Bill.