muzaz Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 When you look at the state of most cars which are crash tested at 30mph into a barrier during the NCAP tests, they look a lot worse than your Defender, at least externally, although they should have reasonably intact passenger cells. thats true, but its better having the car taking the beating discipating the impact as much as possible...than having the seatbelt breaking your collar bone because the vehicle is tank... crashing a landrover in another car probably you wont hurt too much as the other car will deform and absorb much of the impact, but if on the other hand if a landrover is crashed in a solid object, then theres not much to protect you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 So let me get this straight, the Navara is a load of hoop? Cause I know a fella who would simply never let himself be outdone in terms of buying the most practical version of whatever he was buying. This is of course taking into account, reliability, practicality, cost etc etc - as in on balance. Anyway I was saying to him HiLux but in the end he bought Navara and told me various things including the engine is the most powerful in its class? To be honest it's so not my kinda truck I never did my homework if you get me. RE the EuroNCAP - have you seen the ratings for LR's in terms of pedestrians. They should come from the factory with small writing on the front bumper that says 'If you can read this your dead' I know a song about it: "The bumper's connected to the - chassis bone, everything's made out of stee-eeel" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_neutron Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 RE the EuroNCAP - have you seen the ratings for LR's in terms of pedestrians. They should come from the factory with small writing on the front bumper that says 'If you can read this your dead' About a year ago i was driving through my nearest town in my 90 van. The traffic in the opposite direction was stationary. A school boy about 14 years old stepped out in front of me. He was too busy texting on his fone and listening to his ipod. He didn't even stop walking or even look up when i had 4 wheels locked up and was sliding towards him. If i had been in a ford focus, with a good NCAP rating, he probably would of just had severe injuries and i would of had to replace the bumper, bonnet and maybe a new windscreen. Luckily for him, i was in my Defender thats got them tyres on it, which raise the vans height vastly, so that the boys head was perfectly in line with the top rail of the bull bar. Because the van sits so high of the ground, i saw the boy step off the pavement, and walk behind the stationary car on the opposite side of the road. This gave me plenty of time to monitor his movements and react accordingly. This boy who escaped without even being touched by a car is very lucky to be alive, but however will never show up on any stats cos he was never injured. So remind me which one is safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Wow, that was lucky! Now that I've been behind the wheel of my RR I'm actually uncomfortable in a normal car, simply for the fact that I can monitor the road so much farther ahead. RE four wheel lock up - been there, was surprised at how relatively easy it was to induce and still wonder whether the brake bias on my yoke has somehow managed to get a little too much to the rear. Hadn't experienced anything like it since I had this hill climb mini with an adjustable bias valve so that there mas much more rear bias to balance the car for the hills. I spun one time on a country road, wasn't going fast but came over a crest on a corner and there was an oncoming car a little over into my side, hammered the brakes a little too hard and as she went round it was all I could do to keep it on my side of the road... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_neutron Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Wow, that was lucky!Now that I've been behind the wheel of my RR I'm actually uncomfortable in a normal car, simply for the fact that I can monitor the road so much farther ahead. RE four wheel lock up - been there, was surprised at how relatively easy it was to induce and still wonder whether the brake bias on my yoke has somehow managed to get a little too much to the rear. Hadn't experienced anything like it since I had this hill climb mini with an adjustable bias valve so that there mas much more rear bias to balance the car for the hills. I spun one time on a country road, wasn't going fast but came over a crest on a corner and there was an oncoming car a little over into my side, hammered the brakes a little too hard and as she went round it was all I could do to keep it on my side of the road... I'd rather have all 4 lock up than just 2. Theres nothing worse than a car that puts too little to the rear and tries to nose dive every time you brake. Got me thinking though that someone on here may know about abs. My mrs has got a fiesta with abs. I was going down hill on a narrow country road. A car came the other way so i slowed down to about 15mph and put the nearside wheel slightly on the grass. The car coming the other way was obviously a townie and thought they owned the road so rather than moving further over on the grass and risking getting stuck i decided to stop. ABS came on and car continued like i'd never even touched the brakes. My car without ABS and the landie would of tried to drag me in very slightly but would of stopped on the o/s wheels no problem. Is this normal with ABS or is hers faulty as it seems quite unsafe. (sorry about going off topic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeppimp Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I'd rather have all 4 lock up than just 2. Theres nothing worse than a car that puts too little to the rear and tries to nose dive every time you brake.Got me thinking though that someone on here may know about abs. My mrs has got a fiesta with abs. I was going down hill on a narrow country road. A car came the other way so i slowed down to about 15mph and put the nearside wheel slightly on the grass. The car coming the other way was obviously a townie and thought they owned the road so rather than moving further over on the grass and risking getting stuck i decided to stop. ABS came on and car continued like i'd never even touched the brakes. My car without ABS and the landie would of tried to drag me in very slightly but would of stopped on the o/s wheels no problem. Is this normal with ABS or is hers faulty as it seems quite unsafe. (sorry about going off topic) my '04 maxda 6 does exactly the same, nearly put me into the front of a tractor on the lanes round here the other day, again doing less than 20mph at the time. I trust the series one with it's drums far more, might not pull up as quick but at least I'm confident the brakes do what I tell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_neutron Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 my '04 maxda 6 does exactly the same, nearly put me into the front of a tractor on the lanes round here the other day, again doing less than 20mph at the time. I trust the series one with it's drums far more, might not pull up as quick but at least I'm confident the brakes do what I tell them. OMG .. I wasn't expecting it to be normal. Car can consider itself sold. So that means that whatever car i buy, it will do the same ? Was thinking of a focus smax. Is there any pattern to this , is it all cars with ABS ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 The car coming the other way was obviously a townie and thought they owned the road so rather than moving further over on the grass and risking getting stuck i decided to stop. One of these days when I am in a bad mood I am just going to ram one of these townies who can't tell the road is less than two cars width. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 The basic function of abs is to stop the wheels skidding. The theory is that it will help you bring the car to a stop in as controlled a manner as possible, not the fastest time possible. I have a BMW bike with abs and whenever I'd knock the sensors out and it'd stop working I would be in no rush to get it reset - I could stop waaaay quicker without it. That said I've hit oil coming down to light many many times and whereas other bikers would have been off my yoke would stay straight and true. I'd hear the momentary lock of the tyre and get a little pulse through the lever but other then that I'd never know it was happening. Plus getting both wheels locked up on a 1200cc bike is fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_neutron Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 The basic function of abs is to stop the wheels skidding. The theory is that it will help you bring the car to a stop in as controlled a manner as possible, not the fastest time possible.I have a BMW bike with abs and whenever I'd knock the sensors out and it'd stop working I would be in no rush to get it reset - I could stop waaaay quicker without it. That said I've hit oil coming down to light many many times and whereas other bikers would have been off my yoke would stay straight and true. I'd hear the momentary lock of the tyre and get a little pulse through the lever but other then that I'd never know it was happening. Plus getting both wheels locked up on a 1200cc bike is fun Hitting oil on a bike .. I'd just cake myself. But for a car to be a bit upset by a blade of grass.... well i just don't understand why cars would be made like that. When i press the brake pedal it means stop. When i press the pedal hard it means stop now. It doesn't mean stop now unless a few cows walked up yon road earlier and left some poo for me to drive through. That would be foolish. surely ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 With 2 wheels on the grass, no matter how much braking you do you will get very little traction that side and thus very little deceleration. The two wheels on the road however would be able to exert considerable braking effort. Have you ever seen a tank or a tracked excavator steer? Can you see where I am going with this? I know jack all about ABS systems but I know that if I were designing one, making sure that the car went the way the wheels were pointing in preference to pulling sharply into the face of oncoming traffic would be a priority. I guess that stopping power is the victim here, even if it means that control is maintained. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeppimp Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I see what you mean with stopping power with a front wheel on grass/mud/cow poo etc, but tbh I'd rather have some braking effect even if it pulls the car off course than the electronics deciding I 'don't need' to stop and me carrying on into the front of a tractor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 The point is that if the ABS has kicked in then you broke too hard. As in you broke hard enough to take the tyres beyond their limit of grip. You might say, 'I could handle it though' but most people have never even heard of cadence braking - let alone having the presence of mind and reflexes to use it in a tight situation. ABS is a fantastic invention and it works very well, it's not a 'drivers' tool but its still a very very good thing to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 thats true, but its better having the car taking the beating discipating the impact as much as possible...than having the seatbelt breaking your collar bone because the vehicle is tank... crashing a landrover in another car probably you wont hurt too much as the other car will deform and absorb much of the impact, but if on the other hand if a landrover is crashed in a solid object, then theres not much to protect you! In my former employ I have had to collect the remains of a few Defenders that were involved in mishaps with other vehicles. It would be drawing a very long bow indeed to describe a Defender as a tank. Any offset collision that doesn't feed the impact forces directly into the chassis rails will see the bodywork fold up and crush like an aluminium drink can. I find it a bit amusing that an article criticising the crash worthiness of another brand of 4wd attracts any interest here, when most of us know that LandRovers bodywork has the structural integrity of a soggy wet cardboard box. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 drawing a very long bow indeed The drinks can remark is good too what with the amount of liquid mine takes on in the ran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 They have now given the navara 3 stars, it is now officially safe. What a difference 2 weeks make! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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