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my previous R380 only ever ran on ATF & I had no problems with gear changes until it died when the layshaft bearing went & I lost 5th & Reverse after 210,000 miles & my current R380 still runs ATF.

So, despite the bearings failing, the lube worked fine for you???? :blink:

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mmm im still using atf for 4 years now 2nd stiff when cold otherwise perfect! i spoke to diff lock about this super duper oil and couldnot justifi the price but one thing they did tell me if i were to change, the atf must be flushed out first or it will contaminate the new suff after that conversation it put me off and im sticking to atf!!!

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As I have said before, the normal LR mech is illiterate. WTF do they think 'MTF' and 'ATF' mean?

Maybe you should tell them that the box takes WTF instead :rolleyes:

:huh: Jim I never seen you in that state .... World Trade Forum? ;):P ..And be nice to the fitters!! :unsure: Illiteracy is not a disease :ph34r:

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  • 1 month later...
This is the same lubricant that you should use in your axles and you should look for an API GL5 specification for best protection.
Was looking for something else and dredged up this thread. GL5 has extreme pressure additives that damage brass and bronze parts. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the LT230 has such parts in it, so you should only use GL4 spec, not GL5. In the diffs and hubs GL5 is fine.
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I get my ATF for nothing so guess I will be putting that in rather than the expensive MTF!!!

Western how often did/do you change the ATF in your R380?

I have just looked on texaco's website they dont even have MTF 94 listed!

about once a year, during it's annual pre MOT service.

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  • 11 months later...

I am also about to change my LT77 oil, not sure what is in there at the moment.

I too have a notchy 1st-2nd change when cold & was wondering if adding some Moly powder additive (MoS2)would help/be of any use? or would it make things worse. I have some already & was wondering if it was worth a try.

Cheers,

Terry.

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Was looking for something else and dredged up this thread. GL5 has extreme pressure additives that damage brass and bronze parts. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the LT230 has such parts in it, so you should only use GL4 spec, not GL5. In the diffs and hubs GL5 is fine.

This is only partially correct. Modern GL5 oils are fine unless they get very hot (over something like 130c), at which point the oil breaking down brass bits inside your transmission is the least of your worries!

Our A4s box had done 170k and was a bit whiney on overrun, i decided to change the oil and the only 75w90 the factors had was GL5. Audi specifies GL4. I looked into it somewhat and then decided i was satisfied that GL5 is fine, and most of the scare-mongering appears to be third/fourth/fifth/sixth hand info passed around on web forums. The new oil didnt cure the whineyness, but the box is now at 195k and the synchros are all very much intact.

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I am also about to change my LT77 oil, not sure what is in there at the moment.

I too have a notchy 1st-2nd change when cold & was wondering if adding some Moly powder additive (MoS2)would help/be of any use? or would it make things worse. I have some already & was wondering if it was worth a try.

Cheers,

Terry.

The problem is caused by the oil being too slippery. So if your additive makes it even more slippery, you get more problems. RedLine MTL is IMHO the oil that cures the problem, did in mine anyway. ;)http://www.redlineoil.com/Products.aspx?pcid=7

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Hiya.

For my two penneth...

I understand what has been said here - there are newer oils that are better than ATF - but I disagree strongly that ATF 'won't do'.

I base this on my own personal experience of running a Discovery with the LT77 for 180,000 miles using ATF only. I changed the oil every 10,000 miles religiously.

I can't say what the maintenance procedure was in the 70,000 miles before I bought the car, but it didn't appear to have a new gearbox fitted when I bought it. So, I make that a quarter of a million miles on ATF, without an overhaul and still going strong.

The gearbox seltected perfectly and got no noisier (that I could tell) to the day that I sold it.

I agree that you may get a slicker change with a modern oil, but you're going to have all you metal on to convince me ATF won't do!

I should add - there was a lot of towing miles in that too.

Shaun

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R380 should be Dextron III/AQM, as recommended by Ashcroft Transmissions if I remember correctly. TD5 should be MTF94 (Land Rover labelled and available from the likes of paddocks, craddocks, bearmach). Other oils that are as good or better are available from other motor factor outlets.

Never use a thicker oil than recommended - you could do expensive damage to the gearbox.

Les.

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R380 should be Dextron III/AQM, as recommended by Ashcroft Transmissions if I remember correctly. TD5 should be MTF94 (Land Rover labelled and available from the likes of paddocks, craddocks, bearmach). Other oils that are as good or better are available from other motor factor outlets.

Never use a thicker oil than recommended - you could do expensive damage to the gearbox.

Les.

Ashcroft recommend MTF94 for all R380's:

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/faq_part_2.html#a14

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  • 5 years later...

I'm not familiar with the gearboxes and transfer boxes fitted to the Defenders, so can anyone tell me where the model numbers are stamped please? The vehicle is a '92 Defender 90 with a 200tdi.

Most likely an LT77 then. Check the Ashcroft Transmissions website for details on the serial numbers.

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I'm not familiar with the gearboxes and transfer boxes fitted to the Defenders, so can anyone tell me where the model numbers are stamped please? The vehicle is a '92 Defender 90 with a 200tdi.

oppositelock

Ashcrofts have a useful gearbox identification page on their website

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/manual-gearboxes.html

Colin

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Jim Antrill ??

ATF = Automatic Transmission Fluid.

MTF = Multigrade Transmission Fluid.

Remembering that "Oil's aint Oil's Sol" transmission fluids do not have low friction additives that are normally found in engine oils, these, if added to transmission fluids, would impede the gripping action of the syncro rings which obviously need friction to grip the gears and to do their job of assisting the changing of the gears by slowing down the drive gear to the same speed as the lay shaft.

If you reside, live, hide away, in cold climates then the ATF is the way to go as it has an almost constant viscosity and is thin enough to be the ideal fluid for cold climates, if you reside in warmer climes then go for the MTF, or if you really are finicky, use the recommended ATF in winter and replace it with the recommended grade of MTF in summer.

Being in Sunny OZ where the desert temperatures can range from 4*C degrees overnight to +40*C during the day I use the MTF because it is a multigrade oil (variable viscosity) and in addition to this fluid and to cope with the extreme daytime temperatures I have fitted to my R380 gearbox the V8 optioned thermostatic oil cooler.

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For some reason, my R380 box won't change into second when cold with MTF94. Give it a few miles and it will change into second gear but with a crunch. Give it a few more miles and it changes into second near perfect!

There is 135k on the box though. It's a bit annoying because it's clearly lubricant related as once the box and oil gets warm it's fine.

Is almost seems like the MTF94 is too thick? The hotter the gearbox gets, the better the gear change, even ambient temperature makes a big difference.

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Souster, as I said, MTF means Multigrade Transmission Fluid, yes, it will be thicker than ATF when cold and will thin out to a lower viscosity when hot, if you're having the sort of problems you describe switch to a good quality ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid) and your problem should go. I run a pure synthetic MTF in my R380 and although I live in a warmer environment than you guys in the UK even my Disco has occasional winter mornings second gear problems for the first 5 minutes or so.

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Not according to Castrol. Their reference is Multigrade Transmission Fluid, but I'd guess other manufacturers could refer to it as Manual, it's a free world after all but MTF is a multi-grade transmission fluid, as in it's viscosity alters with temperature.

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I thought MTF was Manual Transmission Fluid?

Me too.

I Didn't know ATF was thinner than MTF though. I did try ATF some time back, replaced the ATF that was originally in the box. Can only remember that the fresh new ATF (thicker due to being new?) Wasn't as good as what I drained out. It made 2nd gear much harder to change when cold.

In fact I actually regretted changing the gearbox oil.

2nd gear won't go in for nothing in the winter untill the box has warmed up. Then short shifting at low revs untill finally changing half decent after a fair few miles. Summer is slightly better!

My dad has just bought a 300tdi defender with an R380. And some of you will totally disagree with this...

But I advised him not to change the gearbox oil, because it is changing so nicely as it is now. A gear oil change may make it worse, like it did with mine. Odd I know, you'd think it would be the opposite.

If ATF is thinner than MTF94 though I think I may give it ago.

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