2286 Petrol 110

[Jason2]

Just bought a 1985, 2286 petrol 95k miles 110 (non runner) and after spending far too long to mention welding the chassis up have nearly got it through the French MOT (Failed on headlights,drop arm ball joint & track rod end) but still find that it's as flat as a realy flat thing :angry:You have to slip the clutch to set off in 1st and need a down hill to even think about putting her in fifth Seems to work O.K in low box though!New to the petrol lump so any advice much appreciated!

Les suggested checking/ajusting the tappets that I have'nt had time to do yet, but it seems more like a fuel problem to me.

For example it feels like a blocked jet when you put your foot down & will tick over no problem and then after a few minutes can just die or when you come to a stop but not all the time.Tried cleaning the pump sediment ding a ling & that thing on the bulk head that looks like a fuel filter but I dont think it is jobby.I have ordered a weber carb renovation kit in the hope that it's the carb that's snotted.

Thanks in advance

Ps I know that the 2256cc lumps never going to break any land speed records but i should at least be able to get into fifth gear! Should'nt I?

[Quagmire]

Jason,

I would recommend you post questions about the 2.25 in the series section as well as here- there are a lot more people with them in there (its what i do)

Before you go adjusting the tappets you might wanna try a few other things first...

Have you done a compression test? This will tell you a lot about the state of the engine.

Have you looked at the plugs? The colour will tell you a lot about the state of tune the engine is running in. You want a nice chocolatey brown- grey colour. Black is too rich, and i cant remember what too lean looks like although i think knackered electrodes are a symptom. I'm sure someone can come up with a better description. If the plugs are wet you likely have oil getting in from somewhere, valve stem seals or knackered rings. These would show some smoke however so this goes onto my next question-

Do you get any smoke? If so, is it on start up only, or continuously? What colour is it? (my s2 makes a James Bond-esque cloud of smoke on startup esp. when warm due to the stem seals but once its running is totally fine )

Assuming that the compression is ok, the plugs look good, you have no visible smoke and the tappet clearances are ok the best way to get more go is to keep your ignition system in tip top shape and make sure the timing is dead on.

As for carburation- my carb is still the original one and is pretty much knackered i think. Saying that though i use mine everyday to get to work and it can easily cruise at 70mph. I choose to drive at 60mph as it saves fuel and i get about 21mpg that way 70 is strictly for overtaking trucks and old ladies

Do make sure that you have a nice clean air filter as a dirty one will artificially richen the mixture by restricting airflow.

On my 90 i have fitted an electronic dizzy, and a kenlowe fan to cut down on the drag caused by the mech one. This made it much more free-revving. I also regularly check the gap on my plugs. You need to ensure your coil is still doing its job too. Make sure your dizzy cap and rotor are in good nick also, and ensure that your points are not worn, and are setup correctly.

A good cheap modification i have on my series2, and had on the 90 before the electronic distributor was a 'transistor assisted ignition' kit. These are sold by maplin in the UK and are produced by a company called Velleman, i'm sure they are sold all over the place. They do require some soldering but nothing tricky.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?Module...162&doy=4m3

The kit costs about £10 and basically means that your points simply act as a switch, they therefore dont carry an arc and last longer- helping to keep your car in a good state of tune. They make a noticeable difference to the starting of the engine and add a bit to the power

If i think of anything else i'll add it later.

Hope it all makes sense

Jamie

[Jason2]

Thanks a lot for that Jamie-Makes a lot of sense.

Engine is not smoking either on start up or running!

It was not running so the last owner took it to a garage that changed all the plugs, leads,coil, etc then said that after a compression test it only had compression on one cylinder and said that the head was knacked.The guy at the garage wanted to buy it at a silly price which is why I doubt the compression test's.

I think that it would also be running like a bag of sh*te if it was the case.

It starts & runs well, no knocking,pinking etc... just no power!

It's been run for the last 2 years on private land, filled up with jerricans which is why I privilage the mucky carb.Is there not another filter besides the sediment bowl in the fuel pump?

When I get chance I will check all that you have mentioned and thanks once again for your help.

Jason

[Jason2]

I would recommend you post questions about the 2.25 in the series section as well as here- there are a lot more people with them in there (its what i do)

I did but the post vanished

[Diff]

Good advice from Quagmire, it should definately go ok.

The first step is to confirm or refute the compression test. A compression tester will only set you back about £15 or so. Make sure the battery is fully charged, the engine is hot and that you hold the throttle fully open when cranking.

These engines are remarkable in their ability to 'hide their wear'. It may well have low compression but still run. The 2.25 was never fitted with hardened valve seats for unleaded fuel, so it is possible that the valve seats have burned, or possibly the valves have suffered valve seat recession. This would cause the valve gaps to close up and thereby give low compression.

Regards,

Diff

[Quagmire]

Oh yeah, check your exhaust as well, if its leaking you'll likely smell it or the car will sound burbly on overrun and sound carp on acceleration with lots of blowing. A leaky exhaust will drop the power you are getting

[Jason2]

Funny you should mention that!

Last owner chopped the middle box out and put a bit of pipe in it's place, it's not blowing though!

[GL88]

I've had a very similar issue with my 1973 2.23 petrol SIII and I'm afraid that my solution has been to buy a TD5! Recognising that this probably isn't much help to you I think that my incredibly inconsistent idle (one minute fine the next it dies) is probably the idle mixture and I've been slowly homing in on the correct setting. Bearing in mind that your carburettor isn't the same as mine the adjustments won't be the same. But I think that I've still got the idle mixture a bit too weak (and despite what people may tell you the mixture screw only controls idle mixture - the jets control running mixture so you shouldn't need to worry about them). The other thing is that screwing the mixture screw in richens the mixture because what it controls is air so less air = richer mixture.

Start by screwing the mixture screw right in (but not tight) counting how many turns/fractions so you can reset as before if necessary. Then undo three full turns which should get you to somewhere in the right area. Experiment round that in quarter turns.

Flat performance (even for a 2.25) may also be the ignition advance and you need a strobe to check that properly.

[Jason2]

Cheers GL 88

I have a strobe (It was in the back when I bought it)

Where are the timing marks, on the front pulleys, how do you set the timing on the 2286 ? Turn distributor until timing marks line up useing strobe? Sorry to sound a knob but I've had diesels for the last 15 years!

[Diff]

Cheers GL 88

I have a strobe (It was in the back when I bought it)

Where are the timing marks, on the front pulleys, how do you set the timing on the 2286 ? Turn distributor until timing marks line up useing strobe? Sorry to sound a knob but I've had diesels for the last 15 years!

There is a pointer on the front timing case just above the crank shaft pulley. On the rim of the pulley are a series of 5 marks. They are 3 degrees apart. The one furthest to the right as you look at the engine is 6 degrees btdc (before top dead centre). Moving to the left, the next is 3 degrees btdc, then 0 degrees TDC, then 3 degrees atdc (after top dead centre), and then 6 degrees atdc.

At idle with the strobe connected to plug 1 or 4, the timing should be set between 0 degrees tdc and 6 degrees btdc. These engines usually run best at 6 degree btdc when adjusted with a strobe. This means that at idle, the 6 degree btdc mark will appear stationary at the pointer on the timing case when the strobe is shone on it. To adjust the timing, loosen the distributor clamp and twist the distributor until the marks line up at idle then tighten the clamp.

Regards,

Diff

[Jason2]

There is a pointer on the front timing case just above the crank shaft pulley. On the rim of the pulley are a series of 5 marks. They are 3 degrees apart. The one furthest to the right as you look at the engine is 6 degrees btdc (before top dead centre). Moving to the left, the next is 3 degrees btdc, then 0 degrees TDC, then 3 degrees atdc (after top dead centre), and then 6 degrees atdc.

At idle with the strobe connected to plug 1 or 4, the timing should be set between 0 degrees tdc and 6 degrees btdc. These engines usually run best at 6 degree btdc when adjusted with a strobe. This means that at idle, the 6 degree btdc mark will appear stationary at the pointer on the timing case when the strobe is shone on it. To adjust the timing, loosen the distributor clamp and twist the distributor until the marks line up at idle then tighten the clamp.

Regards,

Diff

Thanks a lot Diff!

I'l try and check it today if I get time.

Jason

[Jason2]

Thanks a lot Diff!

I'l try and check it today if I get time.

Jason

Spark plugs are new and fine (light grey colour)

As for the timing the marks on the crank pulley are currently running about 2 inch to the left away from the arrow marker where they should be.

Can't get them any where near with out her back fireing and stalling, points are good set at 0.015".

Any ideas?

Jason

[jimmy_neutron]

Spark plugs are new and fine (light grey colour)

As for the timing the marks on the crank pulley are currently running about 2 inch to the left away from the arrow marker where they should be.

Can't get them any where near with out her back fireing and stalling, points are good set at 0.015".

Any ideas?

Jason

2 questions ..

1) Did ya try connecting the strobe to pot 4 or did ya just try pot 1 ?

2) If you tried both then is your strobe one of them with the twiddley dial on the back ?

3) Not familiar with this setup, but someone else will easily tell ya ... Some old distributors had bob weights in them for the timing advance and if these seize then can cause weird timing problems. If there is a dome on the side of your dizzy with a pipe on it then try removing and bunging the rubber pipe.

[Jason2]

2 questions ..

1) Did ya try connecting the strobe to pot 4 or did ya just try pot 1 ?

2) If you tried both then is your strobe one of them with the twiddley dial on the back ?

3) Not familiar with this setup, but someone else will easily tell ya ... Some old distributors had bob weights in them for the timing advance and if these seize then can cause weird timing problems. If there is a dome on the side of your dizzy with a pipe on it then try removing and bunging the rubber pipe.

1)Only tried pot 1.

2)There is a twiddly dial to determine rpm , twiddled it all over the place but it did'nt make any difference.

3)Took the vacuem advance pipe off and that got it about 1 iinch nearer but still 1 inch away.All's new on the ignition side of things or at least it should be!

[Quagmire]

1)Only tried pot 1.

2)There is a twiddly dial to determine rpm , twiddled it all over the place but it did'nt make any difference.

3)Took the vacuem advance pipe off and that got it about 1 iinch nearer but still 1 inch away.All's new on the ignition side of things or at least it should be!

If you are having trouble getting running when it looks right on the timing marks then maybe your pulley isnt in the right place, i know mine isnt on the series 2!

Take the plugs out and turn the engine over until number one is at TDC and compare it to the pulley, ideally the pointer should be dead on 0deg.

I just timed mine by ear and then continued tweaking over a couple of weeks until happy.

Twist dizzy with engine running (wear thick rubber gloves!) until idle smooths out and picks up speed, keep turning until it the idle peaks at its fastest and then back off a bit. Take it for a drive, see how it feels and listen carefully

Pinking= too advanced, burbling= too retarded. You may not notice the pinking until you go up a hill or generally put the engine under load so bear this in mind.

[Jason2]

If you are having trouble getting running when it looks right on the timing marks then maybe your pulley isnt in the right place, i know mine isnt on the series 2!

Take the plugs out and turn the engine over until number one is at TDC and compare it to the pulley, ideally the pointer should be dead on 0deg.

I just timed mine by ear and then continued tweaking over a couple of weeks until happy.

Twist dizzy with engine running (wear thick rubber gloves!) until idle smooths out and picks up speed, keep turning until it the idle peaks at its fastest and then back off a bit. Take it for a drive, see how it feels and listen carefully

Pinking= too advanced, burbling= too retarded. You may not notice the pinking until you go up a hill or generally put the engine under load so bear this in mind.

I will try that, thought that it might be the pulley that had moved or was not in the right position.

I also noticed that 3 out of 4 plugs looked a lot cleaner (not as used) than the 4! Could that be low compression on those cylinders? Garage that old owner took it to said it was down on compression on 3 cylinders!

[Jason2]

I will try that, thought that it might be the pulley that had moved or was not in the right position.

I also noticed that 3 out of 4 plugs looked a lot cleaner (not as used) than the 4! Could that be low compression on those cylinders? Garage that old owner took it to said it was down on compression on 3 cylinders!

Just had a compression test done!

No or very low compression on all cylinders , looks like the head's coming off tomorrow if I get the chance.

Just an after thought but could the timing chain have jumped a tooth or somthing daft like that? bearing in mind that the crank pulley marks wont line up with the mark, and thus valves are fully closed under compression! God I'm an optimist

Suppose I can check that the valves are closed at tdc before I rip the head off yeh!

[Quagmire]

Just had a compression test done!

No or very low compression on all cylinders , looks like the head's coming off tomorrow if I get the chance.

D'oh!

[Diff]

Just had a compression test done!

No or very low compression on all cylinders , looks like the head's coming off tomorrow if I get the chance.

Just an after thought but could the timing chain have jumped a tooth or somthing daft like that? bearing in mind that the crank pulley marks wont line up with the mark, and thus valves are fully closed under compression! God I'm an optimist

Suppose I can check that the valves are closed at tdc before I rip the head off yeh!

Check the valve clearances first. As per my earlier thread, the head may have suffered valve seat recession, so the gaps may have closed right up and the valves (exhaust) may be being held open, which would cause the low compression.

The timing is extremely unlikely to have jumped a tooth. The most likely reason for the timing being so far off is that the compression is SO low that the engine requires a massive amount of advance to run. This is normal. Once you have sorted the compression out, you will almost certainly find that you will be able to set the timing up just fine.

The only way the timing marks could be out on this engine is if the crank pulley had been put on without the woodruff key in the crankshaft slot. This is Extremely unlikely.

Good luck,

Regards,

Diff

[Quagmire]

Check the valve clearances first. As per my earlier thread, the head may have suffered valve seat recession, so the gaps may have closed right up and the valves (exhaust) may be being held open, which would cause the low compression.

The timing is extremely unlikely to have jumped a tooth. The most likely reason for the timing being so far off is that the compression is SO low that the engine requires a massive amount of advance to run. This is normal. Once you have sorted the compression out, you will almost certainly find that you will be able to set the timing up just fine.

The only way the timing marks could be out on this engine is if the crank pulley had been put on without the woodruff key in the crankshaft slot. This is Extremely unlikely.

Good luck,

Regards,

Diff

I'd do as Diff says, you have got to take the rocker cover off to remove the head anyway, and so you might as well have a quick look at the clearances before you proceed. Could save yourself a lot of work!

[Jason2]

Check the valve clearances first. As per my earlier thread, the head may have suffered valve seat recession, so the gaps may have closed right up and the valves (exhaust) may be being held open, which would cause the low compression.

The timing is extremely unlikely to have jumped a tooth. The most likely reason for the timing being so far off is that the compression is SO low that the engine requires a massive amount of advance to run. This is normal. Once you have sorted the compression out, you will almost certainly find that you will be able to set the timing up just fine.

The only way the timing marks could be out on this engine is if the crank pulley had been put on without the woodruff key in the crankshaft slot. This is Extremely unlikely.

Good luck,

Regards,

Diff

If it is just (fingers crossed) the "valve seat recession" will just re-setting the valve clearences cure the problem long term or should I be looking at putting a re-con head on in the near future?

Not got a problem taking the head off and doing what's got to be done, the problem is finding somebody here in France that I can trust to re-con the head or getting one shipped out from the U.K and sending the old one back (exchange standard)

Thanks a lot Diff,Quagmire & every body else I realy appreciate your help and if you are ever in the area please feel free to drop in for a glass of "RED"

I will have a look at the old girl tomorrow and let you know how I get on.

Jason

[Diff]

If it is just (fingers crossed) the "valve seat recession" will just re-setting the valve clearences cure the problem long term or should I be looking at putting a re-con head on in the near future?

Not got a problem taking the head off and doing what's got to be done, the problem is finding somebody here in France that I can trust to re-con the head or getting one shipped out from the U.K and sending the old one back (exchange standard)

Thanks a lot Diff,Quagmire & every body else I realy appreciate your help and if you are ever in the area please feel free to drop in for a glass of "RED"

I will have a look at the old girl tomorrow and let you know how I get on.

Jason

If you are very lucky and it IS just valve seat recession, resetting the gaps will restore most of the compression, providing the seats/valves are not burnt. The engine may continue to suffer valve seat recession, but the speed of recession will depend on whether it does a lot of high speed work, or just potters around. To reduce or stop recession, you need to use a good lead replacement additive with your unleaded fuel eg castrol valvemaster.

Ideally hardened valve seats should be fitted, but it is not worth doing this unless you need to recondition the head. Providing you check and adjust the valve clearances (if required) regularly, the existing head will be fine for many years providing it is in otherwise reasonable condition.

Obviously there are other possible causes of low compression including worn bores/pistons/rings and head gasket.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you!

Regards,

Diff

[Jason2]

If you are very lucky and it IS just valve seat recession, resetting the gaps will restore most of the compression, providing the seats/valves are not burnt. The engine may continue to suffer valve seat recession, but the speed of recession will depend on whether it does a lot of high speed work, or just potters around. To reduce or stop recession, you need to use a good lead replacement additive with your unleaded fuel eg castrol valvemaster.

Ideally hardened valve seats should be fitted, but it is not worth doing this unless you need to recondition the head. Providing you check and adjust the valve clearances (if required) regularly, the existing head will be fine for many years providing it is in otherwise reasonable condition.

Obviously there are other possible causes of low compression including worn bores/pistons/rings and head gasket.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you!

Regards,

Diff

Thanks a lot guys, go pour yourself's a BIG glass of somthing on me

Jobs a good un! Had a look at all the valve clearences this afternoon before having the head off, all the exhaust valves had nearly no clearence and the inlet ones were over.

Still can't get the timing marks to line up (about a cm out) so have done what everyone else seems to do, by ear blipping the throttle.

The difference is MENTAL Goes like "sh*t off a stick" (compared to what it was like before) That chuffed with the old girl a treated her to new oil all round.

Thanks a lot once again, right where's my glass?

Jason

[Diff]

Thanks a lot guys, go pour yourself's a BIG glass of somthing on me

Jobs a good un! Had a look at all the valve clearences this afternoon before having the head off, all the exhaust valves had nearly no clearence and the inlet ones were over.

Still can't get the timing marks to line up (about a cm out) so have done what everyone else seems to do, by ear blipping the throttle.

The difference is MENTAL Goes like "sh*t off a stick" (compared to what it was like before) That chuffed with the old girl a treated her to new oil all round.

Thanks a lot once again, right where's my glass?

Jason

Excellent news!

Regards,

Diff