Boot Floor

[sotal]

I've just been cleaning the surface rust off on my boot floor and the majority is perfectly fine but I have ended up with one hole in one bit which is quite big.

I've just been searching for info on the subject and found an article:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stage1v8/TechnicalBootFloor.htm

The bit which has rotted away on mine is basically where this picture shows rust:

After cleaning away the bad metal I am left with a rectangle shaped hole which covers where that rust is. The boot floor doesn't feel weak yet as the crossmember underneath still supports the couragetd sheet floor.

So firstly is it an MOT failure?

Secondly what can I do to repair it - in the cheapest fashion. At this point I would prefer a fix which would keep it going for a year or so rather than replacing the whole boot floor.

I was thinking a repair section which would go over it would be perfect, silconed in place, then riveted

any thoughts?

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Technically this could be construed as an MOT fail as it is within 30cms of a seatbelt mount (if you have a 7 seater) or a body mount (even if yours has 5 seats!). You could patch it up and would probably get away with it if you slapped some black underseal over the repair but do you really want to do that? It is quite straightforward, though time consuming, to replace the boot floor and providing its not too far gone, as yours seems to be the case, you can do so without welding. I think this may prove to be the more sensible long-term option. i had a link on how to do so but I think it has since died.

[Orgasmic Farmer]

in fact its the same link as the piccie you have posted !!!!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stage1v8/TechnicalBootFloor.htm

[sotal]

Yep that's the link I posted at the beginning of my post.

Just to be clear that's just an example pic, mine is actually worse in that area, but is better in general, the sides and arches in mine are perfect so fitting a replacement wouldn't be too bad, but I would rather make a repair

I was under the impression that if a fully seamed repair was made then that would be acceptable in the 30cm region. I just wasn't sure if it had to be welded or not

Mine is a 7 seater

[sotal]

Found the official bit I was after:

It is essential that repairs to corroded areas are properly carried out. Only welding is acceptable for repairs to 'prescribed areas'.

Suitable materials of appropriate gauge and thickness should be used for repairs so that

- Any plating or welding extends to a sound part of a load bearing component, and

- The repair must be virtually as strong as the original structure

So only a continuous seam weld is acceptable for patch repairs, although spot welded joints are acceptable where they originally existed.

Welded repairs to highly stressed components such as steering/suspension arms, rods, levers etc are not normally acceptable.

I need to make a repair panel and seam weld it in place, any tips on making a repair panel? I was thinking of finding a scrapped disco and cutting a good section of floor out to repair it.

Any thoughts?

[andyb]

I was thinking of finding a scrapped disco and cutting a good section of floor out to repair it.

Get or make repair sections. A scrapped Disco has probably been scrapped becuase of terminal rust in all the same places as yours

If you chose to make repair pieces, use a piece of 'angle iron' as a former for bending the repair patchs. Clamp patch and angle in a vice and bend it over. A hammer will help as will a little heat from a blow lamp. I've found a piece of flat bar can be used to help 'hammer form' the ribbed sections. It takes a bit of patience and practise

HTH

[sotal]

Do you know if you can buy repair sections?

It looks like I'll have to have a go at making one if not. I'm not bad at welding but I can imagine the boot floor will be quite thin even back at the good metal. Also do you reckon I'll get away with just welding the top, and if so could I leave the tank in place? - Maybe slide some sheet metal through the access whole to act as a heat shield?

[andyb]

Do you know if you can buy repair sections?

Apologies, mis read one of your posts! You can get repair sections for the arches....IIRC but you are right the floor only comes as a single piece.....this is why I repaired mine.....(cheapskate! )

I used metal a little thicker than the floor which isn't all that thin,..........depends on what you have done before as to what you think is thin. If you've ever welded a car floor or wheel arch.....

Anyway I left the tank in and did the welding in small stitches in offset places. Not too dangerous with a diesel tank, but with a petrol I'd drop the tank out.

[sotal]

Thanks Andy,

I like welding thick stuff best - I can get a really nice weld on thick metal.

I did the footwells in the bulkhead of my series a couple of years ago and they've been through two MOT's since with no problems and they are still very sturdy. The drivers side is pretty good, but the passenger side is a bit splattery (I was doing it outside and the wind was blowing quite badly on that side)

So I should be OK, I would have thought that the worst thing will be bending the metal to the shape

[thebiglad]

I've just been cleaning the surface rust off on my boot floor and the majority is perfectly fine but I have ended up with one hole in one bit which is quite big.

I've just been searching for info on the subject and found an article:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stage1v8/TechnicalBootFloor.htm

The bit which has rotted away on mine is basically where this picture shows rust:

After cleaning away the bad metal I am left with a rectangle shaped hole which covers where that rust is. The boot floor doesn't feel weak yet as the crossmember underneath still supports the couragetd sheet floor.

So firstly is it an MOT failure?

Secondly what can I do to repair it - in the cheapest fashion. At this point I would prefer a fix which would keep it going for a year or so rather than replacing the whole boot floor.

I was thinking a repair section which would go over it would be perfect, silconed in place, then riveted

any thoughts?

I can't weld !!!! Thought I would get that out of the way first, but I replaced the boot floor on my wifes Tdi 200 and to be honest I'm quite proud of it. To view the article follow this link:

http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=107999

It took me a while to think it through but once I got stuck in it wasn't too bad at all. Now I know that all is good and strong again, every time we put 75kgs of coal and 2 bags of horse feed in there it's a relief !!!

[sotal]

I can't weld !!!! Thought I would get that out of the way first, but I replaced the boot floor on my wifes Tdi 200 and to be honest I'm quite proud of it. To view the article follow this link:

http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=107999

It took me a while to think it through but once I got stuck in it wasn't too bad at all. Now I know that all is good and strong again, every time we put 75kgs of coal and 2 bags of horse feed in there it's a relief !!!

That looks good, but don't get me wrong but isn't it an MOT failure? From reading if you replace the boot floor it must be attached in the same manner as the original, spot welded in place??

I was hoping I could get away with riveting a repair panel in but the guidelines for the MOT Tester seem quite strict. I might be wrong just wanted to clear up exactly what the rules are?

[Orgasmic Farmer]

I bolted mine down with self drilling screws. Used a few rivets on one x-member above the tank.

[thebiglad]

That looks good, but don't get me wrong but isn't it an MOT failure? From reading if you replace the boot floor it must be attached in the same manner as the original, spot welded in place??

I was hoping I could get away with riveting a repair panel in but the guidelines for the MOT Tester seem quite strict. I might be wrong just wanted to clear up exactly what the rules are?

No, it's not an mot failure. The mot concerns structural aspects and things like the solidity of brake mounting parts, chassis, seat belt anchorages etc and their security. In this case the rear belt anchors to the chassis passing through the floor on the way.

It's been Contrôle techniqued since without a word of protest. Good enough for me........................

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Just be aware of the evels that may be lurking behind the trim...

This was mine when I took it apart to trayback. The seat belt mountings for the dickie seats were "attached" to this side panel but fell off when I removed the seats!!! :ph34r: Lucky I have no kids!

[thebiglad]

Just be aware of the evels that may be lurking behind the trim...

This was mine when I took it apart to trayback. The seat belt mountings for the dickie seats were "attached" to this side panel but fell off when I removed the seats!!! :ph34r: Lucky I have no kids!

Hi there, I've just looked at your picture and it made me feel soooooh angry at LR for not having the skill, wits or committment to make vehicles that are watertight. The rest of the motor manufacturing world has been doing it for 30 yrs but not LR - no siry bob!! . "Our customers prefer to enjoy the elements" - LR Spokesman defending carp manufacturing.

Ooooooooh it makes me cross...........................

[sotal]

No, it's not an mot failure. The mot concerns structural aspects and things like the solidity of brake mounting parts, chassis, seat belt anchorages etc and their security. In this case the rear belt anchors to the chassis passing through the floor on the way.

It's been Contrôle techniqued since without a word of protest. Good enough for me........................

Are you sure? - From what I have read it is any point which is within 30 cm of anything structual, which most of the boot floor is. Anything in that region must be fitted in the same way as the original was fitted or a repair section must be welded with a continuos weld.

I'm guessing that it technically is an MOT failure but it would take an eagle eyed MOT tested to notice, if this is the case though it could be tricky when it comes to insurance claims - as the insurance could refuse to pay out if they notice that it hasn't been repaired adequately?

I'm not saying it's definitely wrong - It's just the way I've read all the rules, but most people who repair them seem to avoid welding?

[stageonesimmo]

Big Lad - I was going to do a post on that very subject but you beat me to it - I pulled the back of disco to bits to check the boot floor after having the rear arches patched and I thought sod it, I'll take everything out. I had pretty much the same as you only not as bad - I've got a 3" by 1.5 inch hole under the rearmost belt anchor for the LH Dickie seat - I'm bloody glad I've never had to rely on that particular belt I can tell you!

What annoys me is the fact that that particular panel is welded in such a way that it forms a lip on the outside edge - and what happens - all the crud thrown up by the back wheel gets past the mud-flap bracket and into this area then it has a nice ledge to sit and fester on - how the hell can they have not noticed that during manufacture - its beyond me.

Still at least I get to attack mine with the grinder at some point - but I'm not putting the seats in until its done I can tell you!

[Underdog]

No, it's not an mot failure. The mot concerns structural aspects and things like the solidity of brake mounting parts, chassis, seat belt anchorages etc and their security. In this case the rear belt anchors to the chassis passing through the floor on the way.

I'm afraid it is an MOT failure for all the reasons given.

I can appreciate what you say about seat belts being fixed to the chassis Big Lad but in practice, if the floors rotten to within 30cm of the anchor bolt holes, that's a fail. Been there, failed that one!!!!!

MOT inspectors don't need to be eagle eyed as suggested because they are fully conversant with Discovery floor rot and will poke and prod looking specifically for this symptom.

[SHAVED_GORILLA]

I have just repaired mine for the time being.

It was the usual two long edge strips that were the worst.

What I did was cut out all of the rot. Measured the length and width to take in account for the shapeing. Using a sheet metal folder roughly bent the cut strips to a similar shape as the boot contours.

This can be done by hand with a vice and a hammer.

Once the repair sections are approximately to shape offer up to the nice big gap you have cut in your pride and joy. If you are reasonably happy tack the inner edge well at either end and in the middle. By only doing one side you are now able to use a hammer to finely adjust the shape so that you can tack the outer edge down.

Once you are happy that it is resembleing a boot floor edge weld 1cm beads swapping from side to side to iliminate distortion.

The original boot floor was only spot welded and seam sealed so it is not necassary to seem weld the whole repair just seal it well after.

I will be replacing my whole boot floor at some stage but this has past the MOT and will see me through atleast another 2 years before other parts decide to break through.

When it is time to do the job "properly" the whole boot floor and the cross braces will be replaced.

Hope this helps.

Andy

[sotal]

Had a word with my local MOT place - they do quite a few Land rovers, so as I was passing I thought I'd pop in and ask his advice as he'll probably be testing it. His exact words were if he spots just one rivet round the boot area he'll have to inspect further and will probably fail it.

I've ended up making repair panels, using a vice and a piece of 1"x1" box section to bend around. First piece was done yesterday and I managed to weld it in to an acceptable standard and gave it a good paint, second piece will go in next weekend. - Should last a few years after this I reckon

[Underdog]

I have just repaired mine for the time being.

It was the usual two long edge strips that were the worst.

What I did was cut out all of the rot. Measured the length and width to take in account for the shapeing. Using a sheet metal folder roughly bent the cut strips to a similar shape as the boot contours.

This can be done by hand with a vice and a hammer.

Once the repair sections are approximately to shape offer up to the nice big gap you have cut in your pride and joy. If you are reasonably happy tack the inner edge well at either end and in the middle. By only doing one side you are now able to use a hammer to finely adjust the shape so that you can tack the outer edge down.

Once you are happy that it is resembleing a boot floor edge weld 1cm beads swapping from side to side to iliminate distortion.

The original boot floor was only spot welded and seam sealed so it is not necassary to seem weld the whole repair just seal it well after.

I will be replacing my whole boot floor at some stage but this has past the MOT and will see me through atleast another 2 years before other parts decide to break through.

When it is time to do the job "properly" the whole boot floor and the cross braces will be replaced.

Hope this helps.

Andy

You're very fortunate Shaved, you have the tooling and know how regarding welding. Most LR owners don't have this and attempt repairs without this knowledge and armed only with a passion for saving money and keeping their vehicle on the road and legal.

Interesting that you've not bothered with the full repair yet.

To be perfectly honest, once you've sorted out your own rotten boot floor problem that is inherent with the Tdi Discoveries, you really need to turn your attention towards the real problem..........that being leaking Alpine Lights.

You can treat the symptom............. but the problem will only return unless you also treat the cause.

Good luck with it.

[sotal]

To be perfectly honest, once you've sorted out your own rotten boot floor problem that is inherent with the Tdi Discoveries, you really need to turn your attention towards the real problem..........that being leaking Alpine Lights.

Having just stripped all my trim out to make sure I had identified all leaks, I found both sunroofs are 100% water tight, the head-lining is like new and never had any water behind it, the alpine lights are also water tight, it turned out that my wet floor was caused by the rear door being out of adjustment and causing water to run in.

You are right though, it's pointless patching up if it's still leaking in.

Shaved - according to my MOT Bloke the patches do need to be welded with a continuous weld, you can't just tack and seal no matter how the panel is fitted in, repairs have to be welded all the way round with a continuous weld

[SHAVED_GORILLA]

Sotal,

What your MOT guy wants is wrong !!!

In theory you couold rivet and disguise them with underseal and he wouldn't know the diference.

An MOT inspectors job is to look for corrosion not to determine how something was repaired, unless it is obviously substandard.

Your MOT inspector wont be able to tell exactly how it is held together once he is underneath. there are to many bits and piesces in the way to get a good look.

Underdog,

Tooling yes I have an old home made folder but as I said a hammer and a vice are just as easy to use to form thin steel. If it is too thick use a cutting disc on a grinder to score your fold.

As regards know how with a welder that debateable and more a matter of practice and over the last few months I have made use of my time doing so.

It is not that I couldn't be bothered to replace the boot floor with a replacement panel. It was a necassary repair on a budget.

Cost to me..... a few hours plus a few quids worth of materials and welding supplies = Not a lot.

Cost of new boot floor + strengtheners = £130 ish

Cost of MOT and tax =£140

End result = priceless.

Andy

[sotal]

What your MOT guy wants is wrong !!!

In theory you couold rivet and disguise them with underseal and he wouldn't know the diference.

An MOT inspectors job is to look for corrosion not to determine how something was repaired, unless it is obviously substandard.

Your MOT inspector wont be able to tell exactly how it is held together once he is underneath. there are to many bits and piesces in the way to get a good look.

Sorry I think you are wrong there from what I have been told. The MOT manual states:

It is essential that repairs to corroded areas are properly carried out. Only welding is acceptable for repairs to 'prescribed areas'.

Suitable materials of appropriate gauge and thickness should be used for repairs so that

- Any plating or welding extends to a sound part of a load bearing component, and

- The repair must be virtually as strong as the original structure

So only a continuous seam weld is acceptable for patch repairs, although spot welded joints are acceptable where they originally existed.

Welded repairs to highly stressed components such as steering/suspension arms, rods, levers etc are not normally acceptable

Spot welds are OK to hold it in place but it must be virtually as strong as the original structure so a repair patch needs to be continuously welded in.

Unless it is continuously welded then it IS substandard. Whether or not he notices is another matter, as I said before I guess that most of the time the MOT tester probably won't notice as it's a lot of effort to pull up the carpet and a lot of it is obscured from underneath.

Your problem will come if you were ever unfortunate to have a nasty accident, and vehicle inspectors crawl round your car and deam it to be a substandard repair.

It's all very unlikely to happen but for the sake of an extra 10-20 minutes welding I don't see why you wouldn't finish the job off?

Have we got any MOT testers to confirm this?

[SHAVED_GORILLA]

I am sure the handbook is correct but as I have already stated the mot tester is not able to inspect in depth. Have you seen the "corosion assement tool" or "toffee hammer" the use.

I have made a reapir to my vehicle and told everyone how I did it and what an mot inspector is looking for not what is required by the letter of the law.

I am sure that if someone is able to weld they will be able to make their own judgement on how far to go.

I know my repair is stronger than standard and you are welcome to test it if you like.

Andy