orangutan Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 have not driven the Puma - is it actually better than the Td5? mine is chipped by J Fearn and also has the straight thro' pipe - sounds like a Lancaster bomber when on full throttle and feels pretty darn quick too - for a defender still gets around 30 mpg and is relatively civilised......so curious to know whayt is better, if anything.... cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 ......so curious to know whayt is better, if anything....cheers Think "better" will always be a matter of opinion !! But improvements, include lighter gear change, lighter clutch weight, heating that works, air con that cools, doors seals, water leaks, refine motorway cruising, smoother engine,, You need to drive a 07 model for a while, then spend a few days in a TD5,, to really appreciate the difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 a 07MY over a chipped td5 in my opinion the only benefits are 6th gear for better crusing better dash illumination inc rev counter as std a/c that works demister that works heater that works quieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I split these from LR finally admits there's a problem with the 2.4 defender thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godlykepower Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Only thing better than a TD5 is a 300TDi !!!!!!! Im only joking before everyone gets up & starts shouting at me!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I split these from LR finally admits there's a problem with the 2.4 defender thread. Now that explains it,, wondered where my post when,, and theirs me giving the machine a whack !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangutan Posted April 3, 2008 Author Share Posted April 3, 2008 no problem so it is mainly the refinement then.....not the engine...... i cannot quite work out why I like driving the defender. we have 2 other perfectly civilised and charismatic cars (new Cooper S and and BMW M3) yet the defender makes me smile at less than half the speed.... just wondered if i dobbed in the M3 and the td5 and got a new defender and put a load of cash in the bank whether i would be smiling even more....hmmmm but then i would be too scared to scratch it of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 my td5 (chipped and overdrive) is more driveable than a Puma, but its not as refined with regards to temperature, rattles, leaks etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMac1 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Personally, after driving both for at work I prefer the TD5. The new Puma, doesn't seem to have as good engine braking and there seems to be less room in the Puma. May be because it was a truck-cab version, I'm not sure. There's just something about the Puma that i don't like but I struggle to put my finger on it. Good excuse to do some mileage in it next time i can. This was what I posted on another forum back in February! Since then I've driven one for a bit longer, maybe 15-20 miles or so and the following is what I can add: 1st gear seems totally useless on the road, unless for towing but maybe that's just me. It was the truck-cab again and there isn't a lot of room, infact less than my '89 truck-cab 90. The dash sticks out too far and cuts out almost half the N/S wing mirror (this could have been because it was the truck-cab and the seat wouldn't go any further back). Made reversing a 20ft Ifor difficult. Personally I don't like the interior, doesn't look like a Defender to me. Hope this helps. Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Try to rebore Td5 cylinders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I've got a Puma, had several TD5's and pretty much all the LR engines before that. IMHO the latest offering is the nicest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top90 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 It took me a few thousand miles to get into it. At first the gears were all out as I was used to a 5 speed and it was a bit too civillised. Now I've done nine thousand miles I'd not go back. It is slightly slower than my chipped Td5, but the improvements outweight the speed. Besides, how fast do you need to go in a defender? This one accelerates briskly up to the legal limit and sits there at 2,500rpm. At first I think the puma just lacked a bit of the old fashioned utility vehicle charm compared to a Tdi/Td5 due the refinement and quality, but it still has bags of character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I much prefer the Puma to the Td5 in most respects though some of the Ford gearboxes are lousy so it is not the magic fix to LR gearbox problems that some would believe, I don't think the gearbox is any better its just got niggles in different places to the R380 and the oil is a stupid price. The gear ratios are definitely better in 1st to 5th though 6th is a waste of time here. The anti stall on the Puma is magic and blows the Td5 (and indeed virtually any other electronically managed engine I have ever driven) right out of the water. It has irritations and weaknesses, crummy air filter life is one of them, needing a special tool to bleed the fuel system after changing the fuel filter is another one (yes really), the new heater sucks in more dust than an industrial vacuum cleaner due to poor sealing around the bulkhead, there is no legroom for anybody 6ft+ in any of the models with a bulkhead behind the front seats (I couldn't drive a 3dr 110 for any distance and forget a 110HCPU unless you have no legs!) and I don't and never will like the location they picked for the ECU. So far that is about it apart from the fact I am told the rear seats all rattle like hell on rough roads. However I will be sticking with my 300Tdi as this gives me what I want in a Defender which is mostly used for out-and-about stuff these days as the white tin can has a better heater and is better on the road. If the 300Tdi was completely written off or something, I would buy a Puma and wouldn't give a Td5 a second thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpman Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I've had a 200tdi, 300tdi, tdci (for a month) and currently have a td5 In over 100k over the the only engine problem I have had is the front pulley on the 200tdi. TD5 is a great engine and I was suprised when LR decided to put a transit engine in a land rover. I think LR missed a trick when they used the transit engine. It's not an economical engine, the difference in economy between a tdci and a tdv6 is minimal. It seems the worst of both worlds, the TDv6 is a smooth torquey engine but a little thirsty but what is so good about the tdci? Other manufacturers are able to produce 2.5 - 2.8 litre diesel engines, with lower emmissions, more economy better than the tdci and with all the engines and resources at ford's door... can't fathom why? I guess in an attempt to improve the economy LR fitted the discovery ratios in the tdci transfer box and the official figures are 25-28 ... The heater in the tdci may be better because of the new dashboard or could it be because it uses more fuel? I tried a tdci for a month, and I was happy to get the td5 back. Sorry, this might not be a popular view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantd Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I echo the above. I loved my Td5 but the Puma is a better vehicle. The engine and transmission are smoother, 6th gear makes 70-75 mph a dream, the anti-stall has to be experienced and is the way forward and there is increased torque throughout. Jury's out on fuel consumption. I think overall there's probably not much in it but I think it uses more to get itself going so short trips in cold weather lead to worse economy than the Td5. ... i cannot quite work out why I like driving the defender. we have 2 other perfectly civilised and charismatic cars (new Cooper S and and BMW M3) yet the defender makes me smile at less than half the speed.... just wondered if i dobbed in the M3 and the td5 and got a new defender and put a load of cash in the bank whether i would be smiling even more....hmmmm but then i would be too scared to scratch it of course We did exactly this. Swapped the M5 and the Td5 for a Puma 110. Haven't even looked back. Costs go down considerably, I don't worry about scratching it (no -honestly - got some good battle damage already) and the Puma is perfect for long distances now with kids and kit. Even the most mundane trips are enjoyable in the Landy; I had to go at silly speeds to get the same kick out of the M5. Vedict Pure engine/transmission comparisson: not a lot in it although some benefits (anti-stall!) Overlall package: Puma is MUCH better than my previous Td5 (seats, heating, seals...). You lose some load space in a CSW due to new forward-facing seats but not significant. Oh, and you get used to 1st gear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russianfrog Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 The Def 07 (so Puma is the name?) is defenitely a nice car: - You don't need ear-plugs to drive it, - The seats are real ones, that you can move forward and backward! - The anti-stal, TC, and other electronic gizmos make life better; - And of course the heating and A/C are now more or less okay Now, to be honest, the previous Defender I drove was a Serie III that did not pass the technical testing so the Puma does not have to try hard to win... Nevertheless, I liked the horizontal sliding windows on the Series, that looked liked a real LR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Just a thought about the anti-stall in TD5 v Tranny engine. I haven't driven the Tranny version so can't make a direct comparison, but my TD5 dual-mass flywheel gave up the ghost; the springs failed so the flywheel was rattling and messing up the engine's behaviour. I think perhaps the small but noticeble shock-loading as the overdrive changes up and down may have helped it on it's way. So I had a Rakeway solid flywheel fitted, and also went 4Kg heavier. I have lost a little in acceleration, but there is a noticeable improvement in the low-end torque and the way the anti-stall works. Worth considering for anyone whos flywheel suffers a similar fate. What were LR thinking when they fitted a dual-mass in the first place? Still, at least they learn't the lesson and deleted it form the Puma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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