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Spot Welding..... question for the welding stig?


Porny
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I have a Series 3 tub that at some point has had one of the rear wings replaced....

Originally the rear tub outer wings are spot welded to the rest of the tub, but the replacement has been riveted in place - as most of them are.

However... I want to get the tub back to original spec and thus have a new wing spot welded in place.

Is there anyone on here with the necessary kit etc etc (bearing in mind the wing/tub are aluminum) that would be able to do it in exchange for some folding beer tokens?

Somewhere near the Midlands would be good, but will happily travel.

Cheers

Ian

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You could always stick them on with Sikaflex or similar, there are structural adhesives out there that will be much stronger than a few spot welds.

Riveting it on doesn't look that bad once painted IMHO:

Clearance.JPG

I had thought about gluing it on....

I don't mind the rivets that much, but it's the fact one side is 100% original, and the other has rivets - I don't like them not matching. And it seems almost sacrilege to put rivets in the good side to match.

Ian

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Unless you're going for a concours restoration (like wot I dun :P ) I wouldn't worry, it's a Land Rover not a Bentley, they're supposed to have character. ;)

If you clean the mating surfaces well and use Sikaflex to stick it on I would wager it'll be stronger than original, and a tube of Sikaflex is going to be cheaper than paying someone to spot weld it.

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I went into this in detail with my insurers after someone ran into the side of my 110 and the insurance nominated repairers used pop rivets to replace the panel (and a very wonky line of them down the side of the vehicle at that).

The main issue is the clamping loads for spot welding aluminium are much higher than for steel, and the timing requirements for applying current somewhat different. The weld has to be done from both sides (not a case of just pushing an electrode onto the panel) and car repair shops don't have the kit to do the job properly. Hence why Tatcham approve the use of pop rivets on Land Rovers.

I was somewhat disappointed with the "approved" repair method and took issue with my insurers engineers on the basis that it was not an appropriate method to repair a fairly new vehicle, and that it was the responsibility of the third party reinstate my position prior to them driving into my vehicle. All to no avail.

The technical people at Sika provided plenty of information and test results for joint shear and peel strength. Full calculation and analysis showed that the Sikaflex joint was about twice as strong as an aluminium alloy pop rivet joint (even allowing for the steel plug in the centre of the rivet). The insurance engineer accepted my calculations were correct, but it made no difference to the repair method.

On the basis of the calculations, and evidence from Sika, I would advocate a bonded joint over a riveted one. Make sure the areas to be bonded are properley cleaned / degreased and fit together snugly.

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You could always stick them on with Sikaflex or similar, there are structural adhesives out there that will be much stronger than a few spot welds.

Riveting it on doesn't look that bad once painted IMHO:

Clearance.JPG

There really is something about your Land Rover that makes a row of rivets the last thing one notices though. :P

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There really is something about your Land Rover that makes a row of rivets the last thing one notices though. :P

It's the rear door hinge screws being metric isn't it :( unfortunately the correct imperial ones are superseded so I had to sacrifice originality on that one :ph34r:

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I have a Series 3 tub that at some point has had one of the rear wings replaced....

Originally the rear tub outer wings are spot welded to the rest of the tub, but the replacement has been riveted in place - as most of them are.

However... I want to get the tub back to original spec and thus have a new wing spot welded in place.

Is there anyone on here with the necessary kit etc etc (bearing in mind the wing/tub are aluminum) that would be able to do it in exchange for some folding beer tokens?

Somewhere near the Midlands would be good, but will happily travel.

Cheers

Ian

Ian,

I spoke with my son today who is in this trade and he suggests that you adopt the method used by Audi and other ally bodied car manufacturers.

Use a good quality 2 pack bonder, such as that produced by Worth .................... the biggest drawback is that it is also expensive (about £60), but tends to be stronger than the materials it bonds.

The guys also use this stuff on LR rear quarters where the customer does not want rivets on just one side...............

If you want to investigate this further then I will ask him for product names / availability.............

:)

Ian

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Guest WALFY
Ian,

I spoke with my son today who is in this trade and he suggests that you adopt the method used by Audi and other ally bodied car manufacturers.

Use a good quality 2 pack bonder, such as that produced by Worth .................... the biggest drawback is that it is also expensive (about £60), but tends to be stronger than the materials it bonds.

The guys also use this stuff on LR rear quarters where the customer does not want rivets on just one side...............

If you want to investigate this further then I will ask him for product names / availability.............

:)

Ian

Stumpy 2268 on here used something similar on his RRC bobtail. To get the rear panel to sit nie without a million pop rivets he got hold of this filler/bonding agent/gunk/glue type stuff.

Butted both the panels up tight against each other, laid some of the shafts form used rivets and then smeared this gunk stuff over the top. Well strong, I don't think you need the metal content but better to be safe than sorry.

Can't help with a name though, he did give it to me and I do remember contacting them but as I wasn't in the trade they weren't to keen on selling me any so I went down a different route

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Ian,

I spoke with my son today who is in this trade and he suggests that you adopt the method used by Audi and other ally bodied car manufacturers.

Use a good quality 2 pack bonder, such as that produced by Worth .................... the biggest drawback is that it is also expensive (about £60), but tends to be stronger than the materials it bonds.

The guys also use this stuff on LR rear quarters where the customer does not want rivets on just one side...............

If you want to investigate this further then I will ask him for product names / availability.............

:)

Ian

If you could find any more info that would be great....

Someone has also suggested MIG'ing the panels togther, so going to try that on some scrap bits - but it that doesn't work, looks like it will be out with the glue.

Cheers

Ian

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I've used Sikaflex and a few countersunk pop rivets. The countersunk rivets aren't as strong as domed rivets on thin panels hence the added sikaflex.

If you push some filler into the hole in the middle they look like factory spot welds after painting.

By using both rivets and bonding you can line everything up first, drill holes for the rivets and then be certain that it's all in the right place when it goes back on with the bond, also it wont move while it sets and you have all the joints clamped up tight.

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