Hydraulic winch setup and general hydraulic Qs

[SteveBo]

Hi,

I'm planning to fit a removable hydraulic winch to my 110 (TD5 - 2005) based on a Maxidrive PTO http://www.4x4winches.com/images/pages/pag...pump_system.gif.

One of the reasons for a removeable setup is that it uses quick release fittings http://www.4x4winches.com/index.php?page=d...table_mount.htm. Hopefully this means I can also plug in a suitable hydraulic log splitter.

Given the log splitter will probably use a ram which will require a larger volume of hydraulic fluid than the winch I expect to have to use a larger reservoir. I believe the normal PTO kits use a 20 litre or so tank installed in the battery box.

Since I also plan to add a second battery I'd rather not use this space.

I also pplan to add an aux fuel tank under the RH wheelarch so need to keep this space free.

So, I'm thinking of adding a tank in the LH rear wheel arch (with suitable protection).

My question is, could I adapt a plastic water tank? Will the fluid get too hot and deform the tank or would the fluid attack the tank chemically? I would mount the filler inside the rear compartment. Has anyone tried this or any alternatives?

On the otherhand, if my ram is 100mm in diameter (internal) and has an extension of 600mm (internal) I reckon the internal volume is around 4.7 litres so is the larger reservoir overkill? By the time the system is primed (pipes, pto, winch motor, ram etc) why do I need such a large reservoir? Is it mainly for cooling? Is there a rule of thumb for system capacity?

Any advice or shared exprience gratefully received.

Thanks

[LandyManLuke]

any particular need for the winch to actually be removable?

you could add a seperate spool valve and quick release ports for the log splitter.

[tacr2man]

I had the landrover hyd winch and that had the reservoir in the l/h rear corner under the seat box behind the wheel , I think it was about 2.5 gallons IIRC I would think that it has to do with heat dumping and allowing for expansion of the fluid when heated. It also used metal piping for the long runs along the chassis , probably cheaper and also more heat dumping. I would go with steel or ali tank , easier to mount , stronger, saves having to have extra stone guard. better radiator surface. It also had filter fitted , so would protect pump from damage. HTSH

p.s. you can get hyd drive water pump and saw as well.

[SteveBo]

Don't tell me about more toys, I'm in enough trouble as it is...

It sounds like I could get something made up to fit the wheelarch or adapt the tank in the kit.

The main reason for going for a removable setup was because it comes with QRs as part of the kit. I would have to work out how to add QRs into a fixed setup which is beyond my current skillset. I'll inevitably have to learn how all this stuff works and do the job properly though.

I suspect I'll have to think about pipe bores since I believe the standard setup has 3/8 inch and something like a ram might benefit from a bigger bore, sya 1/2 inch min?

Any views on cooling upgrades if I run my TD5 static for any length of time?

[muddy]

I would run 3/4 pipes just to future proof your instillation, in terms of fluid loss you should have none so could effectivly have a tiny resevoir however the bigger the tank the better the heat dissipation so i would always go as big as possible.

I would have thought that the viscous fan in good condition will be fine.

Will.

[SteveBo]

I just have to ask, what kind of saw and where from?

I feel a portable tree processing kit coming on...

[madmatt]

I just have to ask, what kind of saw and where from?

I feel a portable tree processing kit coming on...

I would run 1/2" hoses for winch and 1/2" FEED and 3/4" return for auxilery circuit . Are you fitting a PTO powered pump?

I have a PTO powered pump running the MM winch, then I have an auxilery single acting circuit for splitter, breaker and drill. Adding Quick releases to circuits is easy peasy. Bear in mind that the relief valve in winch will want to be set much lower than that for the splitter, so you need a seperate relief in the winch circuit.

google Stanley Hydraulic tools if you want to drool but a Hyd drive chainsaw is over 2k new and rather cumbersome

[SteveBo]

Definitely going for the PTO pump.

Thanks for the advice on hose sizes.

Any chance of a 'circuit' diagram of your setup. I'm still struggling to get my head around how to run two circuits off one supply. Do you use a switchable valve to avoid the accessory pressure tripping the winch relief valve?

[madmatt]

Definitely going for the PTO pump.

Thanks for the advice on hose sizes.

Any chance of a 'circuit' diagram of your setup. I'm still struggling to get my head around how to run two circuits off one supply. Do you use a switchable valve to avoid the accessory pressure tripping the winch relief valve?

Right i hope this makes sense, I'm not good with computers or drwaing technical diagrams.

My set up uses a solenoid operated valve block thats built up of slices, mine has two slices as there are two circuits. The Winch circuit is double acting oil is pumped in either direction. Just after the main valve block is a cross line relief that cuts in if winch is overloaded, then you need a load hold valve as close to winch motor as possible.

I then have a auxilery single acting circuit the oil only pumps down the 1/2" hose then back down the 3/4" hose to tank.

My valve block is made by Hypro I think came from alfred murray originally but with only one slice I then ordered another slice through hypro with some longer studs and rebuilt it.

I'm lucky in that I have a friendly hyd engineer local if you have any more questions Ill do me best to answer them,

[SteveBo]

Thanks for the info and taking the time for the drawing, much appreciated.

I see your setup has a relief valve on the winch circuit but not on the accessory circuit. Does this mean if you select the accessory circuit without anything connected to it you could overload the supply side?

I guess I could run a feed from the PTO pump to the front of the vehicle to a two way valve selecting either the winch or the acessory circuit. Then have a relief valve on each circuit followed by a load hold on the winch circuit. Next, the winch circuit would have a two way valve (with manual and solenoid control) to provide forward and reverse on the winch.

The splitter circuit would require forward and reverse feeds but these could be managed by a valve on the splitter itself.

Both circuits could then connect to a common return hose.

I'll spend some time investigating this stuff and may come back to pick your brains if you don't mind.

In the meantime, underwater chainsaws?

Cheers

[madmatt]

Thanks for the info and taking the time for the drawing, much appreciated.

I see your setup has a relief valve on the winch circuit but not on the accessory circuit. Does this mean if you select the accessory circuit without anything connected to it you could overload the supply side?

I guess I could run a feed from the PTO pump to the front of the vehicle to a two way valve selecting either the winch or the acessory circuit. Then have a relief valve on each circuit followed by a load hold on the winch circuit. Next, the winch circuit would have a two way valve (with manual and solenoid control) to provide forward and reverse on the winch.

The splitter circuit would require forward and reverse feeds but these could be managed by a valve on the splitter itself.

Both circuits could then connect to a common return hose.

I'll spend some time investigating this stuff and may come back to pick your brains if you don't mind.

In the meantime, underwater chainsaws?

Cheers

Sorry Steve I forgot to mention the main valveblock has a relief built in. This is set to the maximum pressure for the rest of my hyd tools. the winch runs on less hence the cross line relief.

If you get a bankable valve block you won't need a change over valve as the block will have a feed in from pump, and return to tank then the out lets mine has 3 outlets 2 for winch one for Auxilery circuit. I can whip the lid off and take a pic of my valve block on Thursday or friday if you like it would explain it better,

My splitter has a small ebay spool valve yep its double acting but it only needs a single acting feed and a return hose.

As for underwater chainsaws, thats kinda what hyd drive saws were invented for, you can get all manor of stuff my favourite is my Hyd drive pistol drill!

[madmatt]

here's a pic of my valve block etc

[SteveBo]

Thanks for the pictures.

I'm working my way through Practical Hydraulics at the moment.

Who is the manufacturer of your valve?

Cheers,

[madmatt]

Thanks for the pictures.

I'm working my way through Practical Hydraulics at the moment.

Who is the manufacturer of your valve?

Cheers,

www.hypro.co.uk

Something else to think about is on a TD5 its quite hard to fit a hand throttle, you may need to control engine revs for more flow.