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In With a 300Tdi


tuko

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Todd, on my 200TDI flywheel housing, I found that the holes were already drilled, but not tapped for studs for the bottom holes that match the series gearbox holes. I just tapped them out and installed the studs. They are adjacent to the holes used for the stiffening ladder in the engine. Does the 300TDI have the same setup? can you shoot some pics of the stud side of the 300TDI flywheel housing for comparison?

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Will these do Ray?

Todd.

Cool, thanks. There is a slight difference between the two. The 200TDI has a few more holes in it than the 300TDI. I'll get some pics tomorrow. never the less, it looks like you should have plenty of bolts available to hold gearbox and engine together. The US General Motors V*s only use six bolts to hold engine and gearbox together... and have for 60+ years... I believe 11 larger bolts should be able to cope with the 300TDI.

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Cool, thanks. There is a slight difference between the two. The 200TDI has a few more holes in it than the 300TDI. I'll get some pics tomorrow. never the less, it looks like you should have plenty of bolts available to hold gearbox and engine together. The US General Motors V*s only use six bolts to hold engine and gearbox together... and have for 60+ years... I believe 11 larger bolts should be able to cope with the 300TDI.

Today I managed to drill out the bell housing so that it would fit over the two lowest studs on the fly wheel housing. As you can see in the picture, there is plenty of material and the already excisting hole for a stud, therefore I will bore it to slightly larger and tap the bottom center hole for the remaining stud. 11 of the 12 original studs will be holding everything together, should be enough, eh?

Todd.

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Today I managed to drill out the bell housing so that it would fit over the two lowest studs on the fly wheel housing. As you can see in the picture, there is plenty of material and the already excisting hole for a stud, therefore I will bore it to slightly larger and tap the bottom center hole for the remaining stud. 11 of the 12 original studs will be holding everything together, should be enough, eh?

Todd.

I would certainly think so... As stated before, I've seen higher horsepower engines with fewer bolts, and none on the bottom. I really doubt that a non-turbo 300 will make enough power to override all the bolts you have in there. Others may think I am daft, and that may be a good conversation for another thread, but I think you have a good reliable setup from what I see...

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  • 2 weeks later...

The first run at putting the motor in showed that I had a few things on the motor that were still in the way. ie: the air filter housing mount was catching with the throttle linkage in the drivers footwell, the transfer case rubber mounts were simply too much, the driver (right) side motor mount was catching with either the motor mount or the oil filter. I also removed the turbo for the time being as I'm still up in the air about detuning the motor for the MOT.

So now with those removed the motor went in the second time much better. Nearly fits as if it belongs there. There is plently of fore/aft clearances and with the oil bath/battery mount gone no problems with the width. I will say thought it is tight going with the bulkhead when your trying to install the entire motor transmission combination, lots of wiggling but doable.

Todd.

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It seems the further I move forward, there will be a new problem or issue around the corner.

I'm using the transfer case cross member and mounts as my reference point for placing the motor mounts. So thats the main reason why I'm installing everything at once. With more movement (less parts in the way) I managed to get the motor nearly in all the way, about 2 cm to go.

But the issues I'm talking about are 1) the motor mount on the right side is catching with the brake splitter and the motor needs to move further to the right. 2) the strengtheners that are built into the fly wheel housing, which are bolted to the motor mounts, well the left one is catching with the center cross member and won't clear it.

So the first plan is to move the brake splitter from the side of the frame to the top of it, and with the spare fly wheel housing that's from the spares motor, I have already removed one of the two bolts for the stiffener plus removing a bit of metal to get the required clearance.

Man this is a lot of work to just to figure out where I will be welding on the new motor mounts. I'm sure that I'll be installing this motor a few more times before she's already to be bolted down.

Todd.

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Some more fiddling with clearances.

Remember from the pictures above, that the fly wheel housing stiffener was too long and not clearing the cross memember.

Well with my first attempt, I removed the lower bolt and a portion of the motor mount stiffener. I removed approx 2cm of metal leaving as much as possible while removing what I needed to get the job done or at least hoped.

This did help, but unfortunately the transmission still woudn't clear the cross member. So out came the motor once again and this time I decided to totally remove the entire stiffener from the left side. It's disputable weather you need this stiffener or not on many of the forums, but I figure if it's there then there must be a reason. BUT it's not helping me, so one has to go.

With it gone, the motor went in much easier, actually it sits straight with the frame rails and looks to be level to. Now I have lots of room on the left side of the transmission with the cross member and as you can see in the pictures, there are no issues with the right side.

Now the transfer case sits on the cross member in it's proper position, which now gives me the starting point that I'm basing all other measurements off of including the placement of the motor mounts.

Todd.

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As for the motor mounts, I don't see this being a hard task at all.

The original 300Tdi motor mounts just fit in between the frame rails, so the task of making frame motor mounts shouldn't be too hard. Checking out the Disco, the frame mounts there are not much more than simple angled c channel welded to the frame. I plan to buy some 5mm plate and make the mounts over the weekend.

Todd.

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I forgot to add to the above post, is that the left side motor mount had to be trimmed a bit so that it fell in between the frame rails better.

Here are two pictures so you can see what I mean.

As far as I can see now, there are now porblems here and I still have some movement to square the motor up with the frame rail.

Todd.

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Looks like an easy time for the engine mounts... I see your mounts are not parallel with each other either like mine on the 200TDI. Small price to pay for an uprated engine.

How true Ray.

But not much of a difference as compared to your mounts. As I said, the mounts should be easy peasy from this point. ;)

Todd.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Back in the garage today, the other half has been working night shift the past few nights so running power tools and beating away with the hammer are a serious no can do. :(

Fabricated the motor mounts today :D

Loosely based on the motor mounts in the Discovery, a little bit larger and thicker plate (5mm) was used. The first thing I've noticed on both the Disco and a Defender that I was looking at, the plate that the motor mounts sit on, it's as if they are sitting in a craddle. The ends are formed for the rubber mounts to sit up against. So the first thing on order was to mimic that bend.

From there I aligned the motor where I want it and began with the side plates for each side. Doing this, I had to keep in mind that the bolt holes for the bulkhead uprights were still accessable. Only one plate had to have a recess cut into it, so that a nut and washer will fit later.

Pleased with todays progress, I've already grinded back the galvanized coating to fresh steel so that the mounts are ready to be spot welded into place, then I'll remove the motor to get the welding done. I hope to have it all done by Friday afternoon.

Todd.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Time has been limited this past week, but finally picking up my friends welder and I managed to grab a few hours in the garage to weld the motor mounts together and then spot welded them onto the frame. Even with a few spot welds on each side, they held the motor in place! :blink: ............ OPS :rolleyes: some fool forgot to remove the nuts to the rubber mounts. :ph34r:

Once they were off, the motor came out in a jiffy then I welded the mounts in place. Two coats of zinc paint sprayed already, tomorrow I spray a bit more before a good coating of waxoyl on the new mounts.

With the motor out, I just placed a long order for seals, gaskets, various other parts as the next time the motor goes in, it's the last time. ;)

Todd.

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  • 2 months later...

Oi,

I see that it's been a dog's age since I've posted my progress here.

The engine has been in for some time now, the transmission and transfer case are on, including the drive shafts.

I've been playing "get the order right" for the past few months, all the time getting more frustrated. :angry: Would you believe I still can't get the front down pipe.................ebay here I come! Some times the smaller stuff is correct and other times just totally wrong...... can't believe everything you read or are told on the internet. :(

The oil feed and return lines for the turbo are finally blanked off and also the lines for the oil cooler. A friends brother is making a blanking plate for the turbo, so that I can seal off the huge hole in the exhaust manifold. There will be no welding here, as if I every decide to replace the turbo, it will be a simple case of unbolting and bolting back on. Using a top thermostat housing elbow from a Discovery with A/C, I've located my thermostat for the electric fan and the sender unit for the motor temp here.

While I'm still waiting for a down pipe so that I can one day get started with an exhaust system, I've decided that I will go ahead and attack the electrical system.

This is where I'm struggling as I want to get this right the first time and without frying an expensive component. With the Defender engine I was lucky and the wiring harness was still on it. Also I have to the side a complete 1997 Discovery engine bay wiring harness.

From the later, I've removed the glow plug relay and it's wires, which I will use on the motor. Of the two heavy wires, the brown goes to the battery connection on the back of the starter solenoid, the black/yellow wire connects to the glowplugs (#4). The thinner wires, black is earth, white connects to the ignition feed (also white), red and white connects to the starter solenoid (also red and white) and the brown and white wire connects to the cold start warning light.

This is where I'm stumped a bit. When I look at the diagram attached below, the "RELAY-STARTER" do I install this? I don't have this any wheres on the motor, but I do have a yellow relay still on the Disco wiring harness, so do I remove it from there and wire it in? Or is this relay just a part of the immobilization system and I can hope over this? Also there are several high amperage fuses in the diagram, will I have to install something a big as them or can I still use the original series 3 fuse panel?

OK, enough questions for now, I'm going back out to the garage and try to make heads and tails of the wiring. Thanks in advance.

Todd.

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Spent the better part of the day sorting through the wiring harness on the motor and removing what I believe that I don't need.

What I have left on the motor are as follows;

Large brown: to alternator

brown/yellow: from alternator to charge light

white/grey: from alternator to tach

solid white: to injector pump

white/brown: oil pressure switch

Of the above wires, the one that I'm not sure about is the solid white that goes to the injector pump, just under the 4 outlet pipes to the injectors. In the wiring diagrams it's unclear to me if this is the fuel cut off switch :huh: .... Anybody here know what it's meaning in life is? I'll take a picture in the morning, if need be.

The glow plug relay that I removed from the Disco wiring harness has the following wires;

orange/brown: power from battery

yellow/black: to glow plugs

brown/red: start solenoid

black/yellow: glow plug warning light

black: a large black wire

black: a smaller gauge wire but does have an eye end, as it was grounded to a body fitting.

OK, the dilemma I'm running into here is the number of wires that are going to the starter/solenoid. Let me get this right, the battery is powering the starter, so we have a large red wire. Next on the same stud there is a brown wire that will go to the alternator. And then there is the brown/red wire that goes to the starter to. Now that one has be stumped, as I'm not sure where it goes. :huh:

Also I've seen on a number of sites and in the manuals that there is a start relay in the wiring to. :o Is this relay needed?? I do have an extra relay unit here from the Disco (yellow) with wires, but I have no idea if it's a high amperage unit or just a simple 30Amp :huh: So this leads me to ask, the relay used in the start system, is it just a standard 30Amp relay ?

Todd.

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Spent the better part of the day sorting through the wiring harness on the motor and removing what I believe that I don't need.

What I have left on the motor are as follows;

Large brown: to alternator

brown/yellow: from alternator to charge light

white/grey: from alternator to tach

solid white: to injector pump

white/brown: oil pressure switch

Of the above wires, the one that I'm not sure about is the solid white that goes to the injector pump, just under the 4 outlet pipes to the injectors. In the wiring diagrams it's unclear to me if this is the fuel cut off switch :huh: .... Anybody here know what it's meaning in life is? I'll take a picture in the morning, if need be.

The glow plug relay that I removed from the Disco wiring harness has the following wires;

orange/brown: power from battery

yellow/black: to glow plugs

brown/red: start solenoid

black/yellow: glow plug warning light

black: a large black wire

black: a smaller gauge wire but does have an eye end, as it was grounded to a body fitting.

OK, the dilemma I'm running into here is the number of wires that are going to the starter/solenoid. Let me get this right, the battery is powering the starter, so we have a large red wire. Next on the same stud there is a brown wire that will go to the alternator. And then there is the brown/red wire that goes to the starter to. Now that one has be stumped, as I'm not sure where it goes. :huh:

Also I've seen on a number of sites and in the manuals that there is a start relay in the wiring to. :o Is this relay needed?? I do have an extra relay unit here from the Disco (yellow) with wires, but I have no idea if it's a high amperage unit or just a simple 30Amp :huh: So this leads me to ask, the relay used in the start system, is it just a standard 30Amp relay ?

Todd.

Todd, the Brown/Red wire you speak of may be the wire that feeds the chassis (keyswitch) with voltage. without it, you have no control of the engine, and the Landy will not have any volts.

I'll have to look at my wiring diagram close tomorrow...

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Thanks Ray,

I was stumped with that wire till I took the below picture earlier today. There was an electrical stud on the far side of the start solenoid that I honestly forgot that was there. :blink:

I will be wiring in the start relay to the system as I do believe that it is an effective tool for protecting the electrical system from a major meltdown. ;) I have from the Disco wiring harness a relay that was for the A/C compressor, so I'm hoping that this should be up to the task.

Cheers,

Todd.

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Thanks Ray,

I was stumped with that wire till I took the below picture earlier today. There was an electrical stud on the far side of the start solenoid that I honestly forgot that was there. :blink:

I will be wiring in the start relay to the system as I do believe that it is an effective tool for protecting the electrical system from a major meltdown. ;) I have from the Disco wiring harness a relay that was for the A/C compressor, so I'm hoping that this should be up to the task.

Cheers,

Todd.

Todd, according to the wiring manual I have, there should be a white/red wire that connects from the ignition switch to the small blade post on the starter solenoid. The front of the solenoid is a relay itself. There shouldn't really be a need to add another relay... but I suppose you can. If you are going to use a seperate relay for the starter, it will need to be a high amp relay, something that will handle roughly 800 amps. I'm not sure the A/C relay will handle the load.

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Todd, according to the wiring manual I have, there should be a white/red wire that connects from the ignition switch to the small blade post on the starter solenoid. The front of the solenoid is a relay itself. There shouldn't really be a need to add another relay... but I suppose you can. If you are going to use a seperate relay for the starter, it will need to be a high amp relay, something that will handle roughly 800 amps. I'm not sure the A/C relay will handle the load.

The start relay on the Discovery is just a normal 30amp jobbie and is used to reduce the curent flow through the ignition switch. all it is doing is switching the low current feed to starter solenoid not the high current. It may also come into play on the auto versions for the starter inhibit if the gear selector is not in N or P. I think it is also controlled via the alarm/imobiliser.

HTH

Pete.

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The start relay on the Discovery is just a normal 30amp jobbie and is used to reduce the curent flow through the ignition switch. all it is doing is switching the low current feed to starter solenoid not the high current. It may also come into play on the auto versions for the starter inhibit if the gear selector is not in N or P. I think it is also controlled via the alarm/imobiliser.

HTH

Pete.

Well, that sounds very over-engineered... a relay to operate a relay...

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