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It's still doing it


chrispy
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My 1992 Vogue SE 3.9 is still not behaving....

When starting from cold:

- Revs freely without hesitation when in Park, idles beautifully

- When stepping on the gas in Drive, almost stalls, then recovers and drives off, idle feels a bit lumpy

- Once warm, instant throttle response, no stall, idle feels a bit lumpy

When starting from warm after short drive (less than two miles):

- Starts, then hunts, up to 1500 rpm, down to almost stall, back up to 1500, down to stall, recovers to normal

- Idle feels a bit lumpy

When starting from hot after long drive (over two miles):

- Starts instantly, revs to 1500 or so, drops to normal idle

- Idle feels a bit lumpy

Replaced so far: Air flow meter, pipe from AFM to throttle body, stepper motor (air bypass valve), throttle potentiometer, vacuum pipes, flame trap, coolant sensor, HT leads, plugs, distributor cap and rotor arm. All accessible parts to do with engine breathing have also been thoroughly cleaned and all the connectors cleaned and greased.

Short of the other temperature sensor (is it the fuel one?) and the actual ECU, I don't know what else could be causing the problem. It's not a CAT model, so has no lambda sensors to play up. According to the garage everything is fine, but I suspect they only checked things while the car was in park (when it has no symptoms)...

Please help, I love my Vogue and this problem is bugging me...

Cheers,

Chris

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I know it's not even close to being the same engine at all, but I had a petrol VW golf that had what sounds like the same problem!! The solution was to take off the throttle body and scrape out all of the c##p so that the internal parts could move freely again!! The car was like new after they had done that!

Hope it helps!!??!!

Edited by Orange
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Hi Orange,

thanks for your reply, I've cleaned and lubricated all moving parts of the throttle assembly, all the vacuum pipework and pretty much everything else I thought might make a difference. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be that simple :(

Cheers,

Chris

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Hi Orange,

thanks for your reply, I've cleaned and lubricated all moving parts of the throttle assembly, all the vacuum pipework and pretty much everything else I thought might make a difference. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be that simple :(

Cheers,

Chris

Chrispy.

As you know mines was doing the same, have you checked the timing? alternatively get it on a Krypton tuner and get them to check the spark.

Mines was cured by a new dizzy.

Greg

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Does your engine have an EGR valve?

These sometimes coke up and rinsing through with petrol cures the problem.

Is your brake servo/vaccuum line ok? a vaccuum leak or faulty servo diaphragm might well give these symptoms. Maybe temporarily clamp the line and see if it makes a difference.

Air leak is another possibility or a timing problem.

I would suggest the same as Mean Green - Krypton tune.

Les. :)

Edited by Les Henson
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Morning all,

the timing has been adjusted, it was apparently way off and it is running a little smoother than before. I'm not sure there is an EGR valve, where would I find it if there is one? I don't think it's an air leak, I replaced all of the pipework with new items. The brake servo could be a possibility, there is a soft squelch coming from the brake pedal when I press it...

I may well give the Krypton tune a try. What puzzles me though is that most of the symptoms only appear when the car is in Drive, it seems fine in Park. Haven't tried Neutral though...

Cheers as always for all your tips...

Chris

Edited by chrispy
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  • 5 weeks later...
sounds like:

fuel pressure regulator or fuel pump

try putting a pressure gauge in the fuel line and see what the pressure is doing.

Hmmm, but wouldn't that be a constant problem, rather than just when the engine is cold?

Haven't had a chance to get a Krypton tuner in yet either...

Will keep you posted though...

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sounds like:

fuel pressure regulator or fuel pump

try putting a pressure gauge in the fuel line and see what the pressure is doing.

Mines has started playing up again and as far as I can see it must be a fueling problem, this time mine is only rough on gas. Flick it back to Petrol and it runs fine.

It starts from cold and runs fine, but when it get between warm and hot it begins to falter and eventually stalls - I am not sure if it is connected or not but the last 3 times it has stalled it has been in reverse!

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Mines has started playing up again and as far as I can see it must be a fueling problem, this time mine is only rough on gas. Flick it back to Petrol and it runs fine.

It starts from cold and runs fine, but when it get between warm and hot it begins to falter and eventually stalls - I am not sure if it is connected or not but the last 3 times it has stalled it has been in reverse!

Could be ignition too - LPG is more sensitive to poor ignition than petrol.

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  • 2 months later...

Ok, had the mobile Krypton guy round to take a look last weekend. Timing was slightly off and she was running a little bit lean, so adjusted the timing and riched up the mixture a bit.

Unfortunately the problem remains. Since all the electronic components have been changed and all the vacuum pipes renewed and all possible parts cleaned out and generally tidied up, there are really only two options left:

- fuel pump (although surely that would make the problem permanent, not just from cold and doesn't explain the hunting when starting from warmish after a short run)

- ECU (which could be the culprit for all the problems, though unfortunately I do not have access to a known good unit, so I guess I will have to get it refurbed)

That's unless anyone has any other ideas or fancies coming down to London to take a look for themselves :)

Thanks for all you help so far,

Chris

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  • 11 months later...

hi chrispy.

I know this is an old post but did you get the running problem sorted.

I have a rrc 3.9efi 1990 and its just started giving the same symtoms as yours did.

any help would be greatly appreciated :rolleyes:

GARY

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hi chrispy.

I know this is an old post but did you get the running problem sorted.

I have a rrc 3.9efi 1990 and its just started giving the same symtoms as yours did.

any help would be greatly appreciated :rolleyes:

GARY

Hi Gary,

I've given up with it and decided to just live with it. As I mentioned in my previous posts, I've done pretty much everything humanly possible and still have the problem. It's a lot better than it was, but it's not cured. I didn't check the fuel pressure, but I would have thought that would result in a constant problem rather than just the cold / slightly warm problem I'm having.

Sorry I can't be of more help,

Chris

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As suggested before, check the fuel pressure. The fuel pressure is not constant, it varies with inlet manifold depression.

Trawl the internet and find the LR checks for hotwire systems. Follow the process exactly, no shortcuts and see what the results are.

Make sure that the rest of the motor, ie timing, plugs, rotor arm(LR genuine only), dizzy cap(LR genuine only), plug leads, etc are all correct.

A thought for you, when the engine is idling hot or cold the manifold depression is at its highest. The manifold vacuum is used to modulate the fuel pressure regulator with the objective of maintaining a constant difference in pressure either side of the fuel injector so that the fuel flow depends upon the injector open time rather than the relative pressures. At idle the fuel presure is reduced from the normal 36 psi to around 30-32. Non-modulation of the fuel pressure would give you a richer than normal idle.

I wont suggest that this is your problem, but at least you could remove it from the list of possibilities.

jw

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Trawl the internet and find the LR checks for hotwire systems. Follow the process exactly, no shortcuts and see what the results are.

No need - they were posted recently (or rather a link to a site that has them was) and are now in the tech archive, here.

These differ slightly from the Land Rover ones, but it's basically the same process, just the two sets of instructions are clearer than each other in some places. If you've got a workshop manuals CD the LR version is in the electrical troubleshooting section, IIRC. It's worth getting hold of as it shows the pin layout on the ECU connector much better.

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