2nd fuel tank on a 90

[Guest diesel_jim]

Anyone want it? i'll only sling it else.

[Mo Murphy]

Very tidy Jim

I shall be using a fancy bling filler for the front tank as that'll be easier than frenching a 90 filler into place.

Mo

[Eightpot]

Would be a shame to chuck it, nice bit of work - I'll happily put it to use in exchange for beer tokens/forum contribution??

[Guest diesel_jim]

Would be a shame to chuck it, nice bit of work - I'll happily put it to use in exchange for beer tokens/forum contribution??

It's yours mate, PM me your address and i'll get it sent away.

Just throw a few pound towards the forum coffers.

[Eightpot]

I found this diagram while searching for info on how the TD5 pump and it's four inlet/outlet ports should be connected.

I plan to blank off the air bleed port, and loop the low pressure outlet and inlet ports together as I don't need the fuel filter.

High pressure outlet then directly connected to the front tank

A. LP out

B. LP in

C. HP out

D. Return pipe

E. Spill return

F. Filters

G. Fuel cooler

H. HP stage

J. Water jacket

K. Air bleed

L. LP stage

M. Electonic unit injectors

N. Water out

O. Hot fuel in

P. Cool fuel out

Q. Cool water in

[RichardAllen]

Eightpot,

Am I right in thinking your plan is to run your existing and new tanks in parallel with a motorised valve to switch between them ?

Regards

Richard

[Eightpot]

No, I'm going a bit simpler than that, the second tank is purely to give extra range rather than switch between veg/diesel -

I'm going to run a rubber hose from the TD5 pump high pressure outlet up to a T-piece on the vent/overflow pipe on the front tank filler neck.

Then when I hit the switch to turn the rear pump on it will just transfer to the front tank.

Original plan was to connect near to the vent outlet in the filler neck near the fuel cap, and then fuel would be pumped nicely down the neck into the tank.

It seems that the TD5 pump drives fuel out at 4 bar though, which will cause a lot of splashing and might leak as it's so near the cap -

so I'll make a T-joint using a 15mm copper swept T and cut join it into the rubber overflow hose a little further down and it should pump straight into the tank from there - don't think that will cause any probs.

[RichardAllen]

No, I'm going a bit simpler than that, the second tank is purely to give extra range rather than switch between veg/diesel -

I'm going to run a rubber hose from the TD5 pump high pressure outlet up to a T-piece on the vent/overflow pipe on the front tank filler neck.

Then when I hit the switch to turn the rear pump on it will just transfer to the front tank.

Original plan was to connect near to the vent outlet in the filler neck near the fuel cap, and then fuel would be pumped nicely down the neck into the tank.

It seems that the TD5 pump drives fuel out at 4 bar though, which will cause a lot of splashing and might leak as it's so near the cap -

so I'll make a T-joint using a 15mm copper swept T and cut join it into the rubber overflow hose a little further down and it should pump straight into the tank from there - don't think that will cause any probs.

I think you and I are on the same lines. My vehicle is a 1996 300TDi 90. I have a 2nd hand TD5 tank but thought the TD5 pump was too expensive and too high pressure, so I have gone for the late 300TDi pickup/sender unit for the tank (only 2 pipes !), and am then looking to put in a £50 in line pump from Vehicle Wiring Products, as below, to transfer from the rear tank to the front via a Y filler pipe as discussed above in this thread. With a pressure head of .25 bar, that is a 1/16th of the TD5 pump, so I hope to avoid the splashing problem. I also reckon I can T off the existing vent line, to add in the vent from the TD5 tank.

I have not bought all the bits, not made the Y piece and not got it working yet, apart from that it is great in theory. I am currently awaiting the right cradle to get the tank in place. How far have you got with yours ?

Regards

Richard

PS The pump I am buying is:

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-...s/fuelpumps.php

Pressure pump 12V.

Fitted near the tank. Includes bracket.

Fuel delivery capacity 120 L/Hr.

Pressure head 0.25 bar. Suction head -0.10bar.

Ref: 67312. £50.40 each

[Eightpot]

Got the tank and pump

got a cradle ordered from my local supplier (about 45 quid)

I picked up a complete TD5 filler neck assembly including fuel cap/keys, rubber hose to tank for 20 quid at the LRO show, so I'm going this route now as it means I can just crack on with the job - all I have to do is make a little recessed mounting for it on the rear tub.

They sell the filler assemblies at Hobson Industries - they sell them on ebay from time to time, but I think they would sort anyone out who called direct.

Diesel Jim has kindly posted me his homemade Y piece which I wont need now, so let me know if it's of use and I'll forward it on.

Picked up a couple of metres of 6mm rubber fuel line, a switch and relay for the pump

Just need to pick up a suitable bit of steel plate to fabricate a couple of brackets to hang the cradle on, and modify the rear crossmember fillet -

I'm not keen on removing this crossmember fillet, mostly as I don't want to sit in a shower of sparks, so I'm toying with the idea of using gentle heat to soften the plastic tank in the area it fouls the crossmember fillet and press it in a bit - I'll have a little experiment with that and see if it works...

Hoping to get most if not all of the job sorted out this weekend, weather permitting

[RichardAllen]

Got the tank and pump

got a cradle ordered from my local supplier (about 45 quid)

I picked up a complete TD5 filler neck assembly including fuel cap/keys, rubber hose to tank for 20 quid at the LRO show, so I'm going this route now as it means I can just crack on with the job - all I have to do is make a little recessed mounting for it on the rear tub.

They sell the filler assemblies at Hobson Industries - they sell them on ebay from time to time, but I think they would sort anyone out who called direct.

Diesel Jim has kindly posted me his homemade Y piece which I wont need now, so let me know if it's of use and I'll forward it on.

Picked up a couple of metres of 6mm rubber fuel line, a switch and relay for the pump

Just need to pick up a suitable bit of steel plate to fabricate a couple of brackets to hang the cradle on, and modify the rear crossmember fillet -

I'm not keen on removing this crossmember fillet, mostly as I don't want to sit in a shower of sparks, so I'm toying with the idea of using gentle heat to soften the plastic tank in the area it fouls the crossmember fillet and press it in a bit - I'll have a little experiment with that and see if it works...

Hoping to get most if not all of the job sorted out this weekend, weather permitting

You are some way ahead of me. Two baby girls do not give much time left over for Land Rover work. Do let us all know how you get on. PM sent re Y piece.

[RichardAllen]

My tank is going into a late 300TDi CSW 90, so I need to fabricate cradle brackets to go either side of the tank as per earlier in this thread.

I also have a rear anti roll bar and towing plate tie bars to fit in.

Has anyone done these brackets already, before I get stuck in (other than the excellent photo's by JimmyNeutron here, http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=23208&st=0) ?

Regards

Richard

PS The very helpful man at Richards Chassis told me that bracketing for the tank is an integral part of the body supports on a TD5 chassis, I hope to get under one and sneak a picture ... (maybe in Sainsbury's car park !)

PPS Mention should also be made of the very nice chap on eBay: autocraft4x4midland83, who, when I bought the TD5 tank him not only threw in a cradle for free, but when the cradle turned out to be a 110 one, sent me a 90 one free and would not even accept the postage. Credit where it is due.

[RichardAllen]

Thanks a million to Diesel-Jim for making his Y piece and Eightpot for passing it on to me all without even asking for the postage. What a splendid bunch of people we have on here.

Needless to say, I will post up some pics with my Y piece in place, when I have worked out how to fix the TD5 90 tank, + anti-roll bar mounts + towing point tie-bars onto a 300TDi 90.

Thanks again lads.

[Eightpot]

Been busy today and have neeeeearly finished -

Did need to modify the rear triangular bracing on the crossmember after all - a slice up each side, grind the welds off the two web attachments, open the triangular section out and hammer flat against crossmember. Was a pig to open out as it's quite thick steel, so ground a stripe across from left to right to create a weak point then it folded out nicely.

Modified the tank cradle slightly similar to Jimmy neutron - removed the two bolts and replaced it with two short pieces of angle iron welded to the rear face so that they can just rest on the bottom of the crossmember, seems fine without bolting these through.

Got a look at a TD5 last week and how the brackets look - made up my own version out of some 4mm flat - pictures attached.

I fitted the brackets by putting the tank and cradle in place, jacking it up and making sure it was all square, bolting the individual bits of metal to the cradle then welding the brackets to the chassis.

Fits like a glove and is very solid, despite my welding but .... I hit a snag when I tried to remove the tank to set about the pipework - removed all the bolts but neither the tank or cradle could move and it was all locked in place - the cradle needs to be able to drop straight down, but I've done my brackets so the cradle sits on them - think Jimmy Neutron got this bit right with his design

Pryed one of the brackets over in the end just enough to let everything drop down - no big deal, but a little more thought would have made a neater solution.

Second fuel filler recess is made, filler pipes in place.

Had a thought on the fuel guage - instead of using a second guage, I'm going to take the wires from both fuel level senders in the tanks and take them to a two way switch on the dash, connected to the fuel guage. Can just toggle between senders then on the one guage.

[RichardAllen]

Great pic's and thanks again for the Y piece. I have not yet started on the brackets yet, as I need to figure out how to mount the anti-roll bar and towing tie bars in addition to the cradle. The TD5 factory solution looks pretty close to yours with the cradle above the vracket so I don't know how they get the tanks in and out, maybe the whole thing is a looser fit.

We had a family outing to a local park/ornamental woodland yesterday, so I sloped off while wife and children were having an ice-cream on the pretence of getting a bottle of water from the car. I had spied a TD5 90 in the car park, so stuck my camera underneath it to take pics from the same angle as yours.

The owner did not appear which was a bit of a pity, but could have been awkward for a moment. My wife's comment "You must have looked a bit odd !" Nothing new there then.

[Eightpot]

Done it!

all in and working now - once the chassis brackets are attached its all down hill.

Just had to sort out how the fuel would be squirted in to the main tank - after pondering a few options, I dug out a bit of steel tube I had lying around (an old Ikea net curtain rod I think), bent it to a curve, drilled a suitable hole in the filler neck then welded it in place. It projects into the filler neck and the curve helps the fuel squirt straight down towards the tank. Looks a bit manky on the pics as i'd just squirted a bit of hammerite spray paint over the bare metal.

Once thats done, just a matter of wiring up the relay and switch and testing it out - worked first time

Richard - don't think yours should be much more complicated - just a matter of getting a bit of steel the right width and fabricating something a little closer to the factory shape - I only had 40mm wide steel so thats what I used otherwise i'd have followed the LR design.

Fuel pump seems to be working with no probs so far - was worried in case I'd misunderstood how it functioned - the Low pressure output normally goes to the filter then gets passed back in the LP return - as theres no filter here so I've just looped it with 8" of fuel hose. The high pressure feed goes straight to the main tank filler neck, and then there is an air bleed port, which I've just blanked off.

[jacks906]

looks an sounds like a great bit of work

may be worth putting an inline fuel filter in the transfer line just incase you get some rubbish fuel then it can be caught there instead of the main one

dave

[RichardAllen]

Nice one Darren, excellent effort. I finished off my electrics today, so the fuel tank is the next job. I have not yet offered the cradle up properly, so the chassis bracket design is not finalised, but yours looks to me to be classic Land Rover style, strong functional, no messing about.

I brushed up the Y piece with a flap wheel today and painted it. Should have welded on the inlet pipe first perhaps ...

I think the in-line fuel filter may be an idea, so long it easily replaceable in the field.

I am very glad you found something from Ikea to be useful. I have refused to go there ever again from no greater reason than simple visceral hatred of the whole place.

Keep us posted on how it all goes now its done.

[Eightpot]

yep, a small in-line filter would be easy enough to fit in and would give an extra bit of protection - I think it would probably be good for the pump to have a little resistance in the fuel line anyway as it wouldn't normally be able to free flow in normal operation.

[RichardAllen]

...

Once this is done, buy a TD5 tank (WHK10040) off ebay and make sure its for a 90 and not a 110 (some sellers dont actually say). Then buy a fuel sender unit, part number WQB100430. The fuel intank sender is called a fuel pump by land rover. This is just to confuse everone. Dont be tempted to use a TD5 fuel pump as it will just cause problems. See if ya get the sealing ring, adapter, and metal ring for fitting this sender in the tank. ESR 3806/ ESR 3807/ ESR 3808. Then ya need the tank cradle WFI100070. Then ya need to modify the cradle, make some brackets to weld onto the chasis. And also cut away the triangular shaped section from your rear cross member.

...

For anyone following this thread, or this one: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=23208&st=0

The connector you need to connect to the fuel sender unit part number WQB100430 cannot be bought on its own, only as part of the whole Puma loom. However, it is easily sourced from a breakers, as it is the same connector that goes onto the light cluster in the rear bumper of a Freelander 2.

Regards

Richard