jil6939 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 John/Najw This rope issue has been with us in the past and will come round again in the future as people come and go. What worrys me most is that it doesnt become anal with points deducted for brushing the rope ie.within the spirit,as opposed to deliberate tampering ie putting your foot on it and driving out the stage. It is no secret that the gates get wider as the day goes on and posts are knocked and replaced but that is the same for everyone and so has no advantage really. If you want to reduce rope damage you would have to make the gates wider to allow for slippage but that is not always possible. I say its fine as it is as you know as well as i do who drives over ropes as we all talk to each other. PS if you want the rope back from round my rear prop i shall post the small bits back to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguevogue Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 PS if you want the rope back from round my rear prop i shall post the small bits back to you Thats nothing, I found a punch in my car that we removed from 7Sisters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Wasn't me I came last Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jil6939 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Wasn't me I came last Ah but there is the problem you see as you assume cheating makes you win but the people i have seen cheeating didnt win. So why bother cheating when it only spoils it for everyone else. While im on my soap box i have to mention that whilst pegging around at Round 3 i did witness a marshall stop Alan winching, half way up a slope, to send his co-d around the back of his truck to un-hitch the blue rope. Had his winch line broke he would have flattened the poor chap. Its only a bit of rope. He was driving within the spirit and it just got hooked up and i think Alan was very restrained in not telling him to **** *** and re tie it after the truck was in a safer position. Thats not a dig at any marshalls that do a thankless task for free just an observation of lack of rules being flexible where needed. Stepping off my soap box now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 It is no secret that the gates get wider as the day goes on ... ...that is the same for everyone and so has no advantage really. Except where it happens on a special stage where each team goes sequentially.... Thats nothing, I found a punch in my car that we removed from 7Sisters. When Neil told you to 'The idea of the day is drive round the site collecting punches'... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 not a dig at any marshalls that do a thankless task for free just an observation of lack of rules being flexible where needed. Finding even handed marshals who can all interpret all the rules the same and apply them to all the entrants the same seems to be the holy grail. We all read rules differently and see different ways round things, I am sorry to say that I do not think it is possible to get the even handed marshalling which would be desirable. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jil6939 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Except where it happens on a special stage where each team goes sequentially... Well i disagree as you chose witch ss to do and when so you do have a say. Many a better person than my self has made a bad call on ss. Also i do of course realise the inherent problems with rules and marshalls. That is why i did say that you can get a bit anal over the whole rope issue and what is brushing/cheating/removing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Not a very level playing field though is it if the special stage gets easier the more cars go through? Not everyone can be last. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protoprincess Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Excellent weekend really good atmosphere with a lot more people than usual teaming up and helping each other out. Awesome site, and thanks to Neil and the NCGL some of the punches were quite evil. Many thanks to everyone who helped get us out of this little mess. It was, thanks again. Dan, why are you on your side? The beard did not provide a lateral stability ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Not a very level playing field though is it if the special stage gets easier the more cars go through? Not everyone can be last.Chris Alot of SS change through the day for other reasons too. Marshalling in general is a daunting task and everyone reads things and then interprets things slightly differently anyway. As long as a datum is worked to by all then it cant go far wrong. its a case of maintaining that datum. At my last event marshalls were given specific taped areas to watch so therefore they had the same rules to apply to every vehicle going through that section, granted this may be slightly different between sections but at least it makes that punch the same for all. crossing or breaking tape or the line made by it means the punch score is removed from the competitor. They get a prior warning if what they are about to do is not fair play. competitors are also told as soon as they get a penalty by the person giving it and the reason why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 So a co-driver standing on the rope and the driver driving over it to leave the section quicker is not deliberate,and punching a punch from out side the rope is following the marked course as long as you don't drive over it I agree that you shouldn't give penatlys for accidents but i didn't know we could cheat if no one was looking and run over the ropes if we are in a rush and only loose half the point of that punch if you are seen we may do better next time Both of those examples would be a clear breach of the rules and assuming it was seen and reported by a marshal the points would be deducted and if necessary the driver given a warning. If said driver was a repeat offender then disqualification would follow. As I said before if someone gets tangles up or slips over the rope/stake it is down to the marshal to assess whether a penalty is applicable. If, as drivers, you know who cheats then why not let the organisers know so we can be more vigilant? There are only limited bodies to go round, so we need to make the best use of them we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 Thats nothing, I found a punch in my car that we removed from 7Sisters. Presumably not one of mine as we don't use that old technology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I realise that persons accused of cheating deliberatly are not the competitors who are are winning or indeed in the top few finishers, and could be found anywhere in the field, I hope thats clear, I was trying to make light of the situation. Marshalling is in my opinion a difficult, sometimes boring and totally thankless, unpaid task, especially in the weather conditions that sometimes occur, which was proven again at the weekend, I'm sure we all realise no marshalls= no competion, its a real no brainer, they do it as we do purely for enjoyment, so we have to accept a little inconsistancy every now and then I suppose. We are not playing for a trip to Florida, a new Defender or the morgage payed for life, its a sport and hobby, a scource of enjoyment, lets get on with it respectfully and not cheat on one another or call the odd poor decisions by a marshall. Personally I am more than happy to finish last or whatever, knowing I have not cheated but tried my best and enjoyed myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jil6939 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 .Personally I am more than happy to finish last or whatever, knowing I have not cheated but tried my best and enjoyed myself. In that case i shall gladly take your challenge and race you to last position at the next round. May the best man win.No cheating though Regards JF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 That's the spirit, you're on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan kemp Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Ah but there is the problem you see as you assume cheating makes you win but the people i have seen cheeating didnt win. So why bother cheating when it only spoils it for everyone else. While im on my soap box i have to mention that whilst pegging around at Round 3 i did witness a marshall stop Alan winching, half way up a slope, to send his co-d around the back of his truck to un-hitch the blue rope. Had his winch line broke he would have flattened the poor chap. Its only a bit of rope. He was driving within the spirit and it just got hooked up and i think Alan was very restrained in not telling him to **** *** and re tie it after the truck was in a safer position. Thats not a dig at any marshalls that do a thankless task for free just an observation of lack of rules being flexible where needed. Stepping off my soap box now. Does everyone get hung up on ropes or is it just me. I have moved the offending bits of car to try to prevent it. I would never tell a marshal to **** **, thats Dafydds job What spoiled a couple of good punches for me was when cars who have gone before me have driven around the obsticle they were clearly supposed to winch over by moving the rope about a meter so the car could get through. Earlier we walked the sections and reconed it needed 2 winch moves to get it without "cheating". When we arrived there in the heat of battle, we had no real choice but to "cheat" by doing the same as everyone else. It spoiled what would have been a fairly hard section. (Opposite where Dan rolled). We did have one marshal who told us we had to use shackles when attaching a yellow comp hook to a sling, he was quietly side stepped and politely ignored... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Does everyone get hung up on ropes or is it just me. I have moved the offending bits of car to try to prevent it. I would never tell a marshal to **** **, thats Dafydds job What spoiled a couple of good punches for me was when cars who have gone before me have driven around the obsticle they were clearly supposed to winch over by moving the rope about a meter so the car could get through. Earlier we walked the sections and reconed it needed 2 winch moves to get it without "cheating". When we arrived there in the heat of battle, we had no real choice but to "cheat" by doing the same as everyone else. It spoiled what would have been a fairly hard section. (Opposite where Dan rolled). We did have one marshal who told us we had to use shackles when attaching a yellow comp hook to a sling, he was quietly side stepped and politely ignored... We spent and (usually spend) quite a lot of time in trouble on the ropes but i figure it's just cause were fat. We were very disapointed when we saw the same punch as you, we drove the correct route bending a link in the process . We figured that rightly or wrongly we'd drive the harder route as then we'd know we hadn't cheated and besides we hadn't gone there to drive the flat bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 Does everyone get hung up on ropes or is it just me. Perhaps the blue has a magnetic effect on your car :P Although your ground anchor does appear to have developed a destructive force all of its own!! Part of the problem (generally not with you Alan) is that the metal ground spikes bend so easily and the wooden stakes snap. It would be nice to find something more hardwearing and suitable for use on open sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail4x4 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Land mines perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanny Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 hello neil im off to a cross country event sunday will get a marker from course steward they use a plastic type stick. i will bring it to NCGL bbq on the 6th july at clumber park see ncgl web site lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lr90paul Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Hi everyone, just posting my link for the photos I took at round 4. Hope you all enjoy them. I'll be putting up on photobucket my pic of rounds 1, 2 and 3 soon too. look forward to taking pics at round 5 see you all there. Paul. http://s321.photobucket.com/albums/nn385/p...mpjune08007.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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