Jump to content

Edelbrock


Rob

Recommended Posts

Dear all,

I just took out the injection system of my 3.9 engine and installed an edelbrock carbu.

According to these guys I had to install an other thermostat housing to ensure that my inlet manifold could get some cooling....

http://www.v8engines.com/old-pages/Test/fa...tting-questions

Now, my main question is, where do I connect this extra inlet to ?

According to the site I have to connect this to the rear of my water pomp, but there's no free outlet .... is there a difference between this water pump housing and the one of a carburettor engine ?

At this moment the rear section of the inlet manifold is connected to the heater matrix and the return of the heater matrix goes to the waterpump....

Did I do something wrong , how should these connect ?

Grateful for your comments....

REgards,

Rob

Fixed clicky. Geoff

Edited by geoffbeaumont
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Rob

I've just fitted one to my hybrid, its a 4.2 from a LSE so is the same as yours really. My water pump has two bosses on the back, one is blanked and the other is a water supply. I have a small "S" shaped hose going from there to the thermostat housing. This is a replacement with an additional pipe.

Great link to RPI's site, i've just found out my dizzy vacuum pipe was on the wrong pipe :huh:

cheers

Geoff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geoff,

Thank you for your answer, maybe I have to rephrase my question...

Current situation of my plumbing ;

- Top hose(feed) from radiator is connected to thermostat housing (or elbow).

- Bottom hose (return) from radiator is connected to the water pump

- still left ;

* 1 outlet on back of my water pump

* 1 inlet on the front of my inlet manifold

* 1 outlet on the back of my inlet manifold

* heater matrix (in- and outlet)

How should I connect ??

my best guess :

from back of water pump -> inlet manifold -> manifold -> outlet manifold -> inlet heater -> heater -> outlet heater -> 2nd outlet water pump.

If I'm correct I need to create an extra hole in the water pump ....other possibility ?

thanks again

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like you are using a 3.5 EFi manifold, or is it an Edlebrock or one of the dual plane manifolds?

The 3.5's (pre hot wire) had the heater pipes run through the manifold (cast into the underside) from the water pump and back. The 3.9/4.2 hot wires had the heater pipes running down the divers side of the plenum chamber.

I take it that " that my inlet manifold could get some cooling.." is a typo and that they actually meant needs some heating, frosting is usually the problem.

I did a similar conversion with an SD1 engine and a four choke Holley in a ski boat using a standard manifold and the heater hoses as described above without any problems other than the Holley wasn't too keen on high speed turns, float chamber levels dropping due to high load and the angulation of the boat, bit of a bu@@er when you are hanging onto a rope behind the thing <_<

In short, if you really need "coolant" going through the carb body and already have water going into & out of the manifold, I would be tempted to put a T into either line and run a hose in parallel with the manifold. But, too hot can be detremental to performance so a thermostat might be in order.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Niall,

I currently ahve an Edelbrock manifold.

According to RPi's site, and I quote : "Rover intakes have always and necessarily had this type of coolant bypass allowing for a slight volume of coolant to continuously circulate even when the thermostat is shut. without this required feature, incomplete Weber installations kits will lead to problems with coolant circulation and higher engine running temperatures,"

There's still one other solution, I guess : there's an other type of hose that can be used ( instead of opening the extra outlet on the back of my water pump); this hose has 4 outlets ;

1. connection to the water pump

2. connection to the radiator

3. connection to expansion tank (return )

4. connection to heather ( as return)

This way I can use the one outlet of the waterpump to connect to my intake manifold , from the back of the manifold a hose will feed the heater, the return will then be connected to the big return from radiator to water pump....Will this do also ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I ran an Edelbrock carbie and manifold on my V8 for a while. They are OK on road but terrible (stall and difficult to re-start) on steep off road sections. I ended up tossing it and fitting a quadrajet carbie, which was much better offroad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is probably not what Rob want's to hear but from the boat experience with the Holley it doesn't surprise me. That's why they went with strombergs/zenith in the end after testing on the prototype Rangies

The RPI comments are a bit unclear, when they say Rover manifold do they mean original or other manifolds made to fit the Rover, then they refer to Webers and the problem being higher engine temps due circulation problems rather than carb icing. Maybe it could be due to the thermostat shutting off the pump outlet ,with the water having nowhere to go this could cause the pump to cavitate, though I have never heard of this before.

What you are suggesting would probably work OK.

I would be tempted to give Chris a call at RPI, he can be a bit long winded but he gets there in the end and is pretty free with his advice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 years later...

I ran an Edelbrock carbie and manifold on my V8 for a while. They are OK on road but terrible (stall and difficult to re-start) on steep off road sections. I ended up tossing it and fitting a quadrajet carbie, which was much better offroad.

Bringing back from the dead.... A friend has a 3.5 l that is done up a bit and running the Edelbrock. As mentioned, it is next to useless off road. Talking to someone more in the know led us to the possible cheap solution of fitting a Quadrajet. Finding one is simple enough as half the vehicle in the junkyard have one sitting on them.

My question is on jetting. Seeing as these will be removed from a much larger engine, I assume rejetting will be needed. Anyone done this and have a feel for the right range of jetting?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bringing back from the dead.... A friend has a 3.5 l that is done up a bit and running the Edelbrock. As mentioned, it is next to useless off road. Talking to someone more in the know led us to the possible cheap solution of fitting a Quadrajet. Finding one is simple enough as half the vehicle in the junkyard have one sitting on them.

My question is on jetting. Seeing as these will be removed from a much larger engine, I assume rejetting will be needed. Anyone done this and have a feel for the right range of jetting?

Yes done it

Yes - a RRPITFA

No, it was still hopeless smallest jets still caused flooding on heavy accel

Nige

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've just googled the quadrajet, looks very similar to the Weber / Edelbrock / Holley.

No, the quadrajet is quite different.

Yes, EFI would be my preference, but the owner is not a mechanic and does not have time, money or experience to get and EFI system in place and running. I can have a quadrajet in hand for $20 in an hour. The Weber/Edlebrock that is in there works fine, but it useless off road as any angle causes it to flood.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

OK FF, you win. We picked up a full EFI system for cheap.

100_2002.jpg

What went wrong with the quadrajet. I ran a Edelbrock intake manifold on a 4.6 for years and was quite happy with the performance. Also Holley make a truck avenger carbie that solves most of the problems with angles. But EFI is good as long as you are prepared to be shackled a little by the computer. It is a lot more difficult doing field repairs on an EFI system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It is a lot more difficult doing field repairs on an EFI system.

Is it? Wouldn't know as they barely ever go wrong in the first place :P

I use computers for a living and therefore rarely feel 'shackled' by then, that's normally the desks job :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

P76rangie - EFI repairs are infinitely more simple than carb repairs, there are very few moving parts (8 injectors, all interchangeable, and a fuel pressure regulator) and I know from experience that not only can you run pretty damn well with half the injectors not working, but you can also change an injector (or three) with one spanner in about 3 minutes. You can also interchange injectors & sensor from other vehicles far more easily than you can interchange the finer workings of carburettors in the field (been there, done it, it's no fun).

The difficult bit is when technophobic Land Rover types who are used to carbs try to diagnose EFI systems by poking them with sticks or hitting them with hammers rather than applying a bit of logic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

P76rangie - EFI repairs are infinitely more simple than carb repairs, there are very few moving parts (8 injectors, all interchangeable, and a fuel pressure regulator) and I know from experience that not only can you run pretty damn well with half the injectors not working, but you can also change an injector (or three) with one spanner in about 3 minutes. You can also interchange injectors & sensor from other vehicles far more easily than you can interchange the finer workings of carburettors in the field (been there, done it, it's no fun).

The difficult bit is when technophobic Land Rover types who are used to carbs try to diagnose EFI systems by poking them with sticks or hitting them with hammers rather than applying a bit of logic.

Now let me see. ECU under seat, go into mud hole and get stuck, water comes up to seat, will motor start up? Fuel pump backs up, will car still run?

I can think of a thousand instances where I have got a carbie motor running in the bush and would not have a hope with an EFI system. Technophobic? yeah right. I have been playing with computers for nearly 35 years. The early PCs I were programming had 64k of memory and 2X256k floppy disc drives, mainframes I used required punch cards for programming. I love new technology. But in my work life I have to come up with the best solution for the situation in question. This solution from time to time does not involve computers (believe it or not).

I have had issues getting the fueling right on my EFI system due to the change in cam and going from 3.9 to 4.6. These technology for technology sake types cannot think outside their own little world. They could not accept that there might be solutions other than reprogramming things and also the difficulty in having a 14 CUX reprogrammed to suit the exact vehicle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeebus, here we go again...

Now let me see. ECU under seat, go into mud hole and get stuck, water comes up to seat, will motor start up? Fuel pump backs up, will car still run?

OK, first stop, ECU under seat, go into mud hole - you're a f**ing idiot then :rolleyes: That's like saying "I drove into 6' deep water with no snorkel and the engine stopped working, must've been a bad engine" :lol:

Fuel pump - they very rarely go wrong and are a pretty universal thing to find. From experience they will happily pump fuel contaminated with mud & water and survive.

cannot think outside their own little world.

Are you near a mirror at all?

I can think of a thousand instances where I have got a carbie motor running in the bush and would not have a hope with an EFI system

So you're saying there's been a thousand instances where carbs have failed - that's not exactly a great advert for them, is it? In all the trips we've done the vehicles with carbs (or diesel engines) have proven significantly less reliable than the petrol EFI ones. Just lucky I guess.

They could not accept that there might be solutions other than reprogramming things and also the difficulty in having a 14 CUX reprogrammed to suit the exact vehicle.

Who the hell said 14CUX? :rolleyes:

Sure I'd recommend a pocket calculator over an abacus any day, but not if you want to surf the net with it :lol:

Carbs went out about the time of the ZX spectrum, and EFI is the main reason why cars today are more reliable, economical, powerful and driveable than they were 20 years ago.

Incidentally, I can do this all day for whatever scenario you've got, mainly because we ran through every possible scenario before committing to EFI when building the race car so we can either play ping-pong in Red90's thread or STFU and stop threadjacking. If you want to continue pointless bickering in a separate thread then you're welcome to do so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeebus, here we go again...

Now let me see. ECU under seat, go into mud hole and get stuck, water comes up to seat, will motor start up? Fuel pump backs up, will car still run?

OK, first stop, ECU under seat, go into mud hole - you're a f**ing idiot then :rolleyes: That's like saying "I drove into 6' deep water with no snorkel and the engine stopped working, must've been a bad engine" :lol:

Fuel pump - they very rarely go wrong and are a pretty universal thing to find. From experience they will happily pump fuel contaminated with mud & water and survive.

cannot think outside their own little world.

Are you near a mirror at all?

I can think of a thousand instances where I have got a carbie motor running in the bush and would not have a hope with an EFI system

So you're saying there's been a thousand instances where carbs have failed - that's not exactly a great advert for them, is it? In all the trips we've done the vehicles with carbs (or diesel engines) have proven significantly less reliable than the petrol EFI ones. Just lucky I guess.

They could not accept that there might be solutions other than reprogramming things and also the difficulty in having a 14 CUX reprogrammed to suit the exact vehicle.

Who the hell said 14CUX? :rolleyes:

Sure I'd recommend a pocket calculator over an abacus any day, but not if you want to surf the net with it :lol:

Carbs went out about the time of the ZX spectrum, and EFI is the main reason why cars today are more reliable, economical, powerful and driveable than they were 20 years ago.

Incidentally, I can do this all day for whatever scenario you've got, mainly because we ran through every possible scenario before committing to EFI when building the race car so we can either play ping-pong in Red90's thread or STFU and stop threadjacking. If you want to continue pointless bickering in a separate thread then you're welcome to do so.

Maybe this is the issue. You are talking about a race or road car, I am talking about something for off road where there is no road side service or tow trucks to get you home. Everything has its place. You forget that 2 out of my 3 land rovers have EFI. So I am not biased either way. But for the Off Roader the EFI only controls injectors and I have the backup of LPG if it fails. Anything else controlled by ECUs in that vehicle can be bypassed if I have to. It would appear that you are very narrowed minded in your thinking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am talking about something for off road where there is no road side service or tow trucks to get you home. Everything has its place.

Well, thats you put in your place Mr Fridge, Lagoda is only a gentle greenlaning event, barely off road

...so WTF do you know anyways :P

:ph34r:

Nige

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We use cookies to ensure you get the best experience. By using our website you agree to our Cookie Policy