3 years old,, (well nearly)

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

FWIW....

I like the idea of Fridges "Funds Guage" - non specific and of little use to spammers / crooks / con artsits etc, but very useful as a guide to members and a visible "How safe is the forum" for all to see, so makes the rattling of the tin more obvious if and when needed

I do not like the idea of posting up detailed specifics, for all the reasons others have mentioned, nothing about 'secrecy' more about the forums 'security', but if a known / proven (ie not Mr umbongo-dodawallah 'ex president' and very nice man) wants more that to should be allowed, but prob via at the very least PM etc

So I guess thats 5

nige

[white90]

There are no secrets

the accounts are readily available for anyone to see.

I have just rtn'd from France so will address this early next week

[western]

6 now, a forum fuel gauge sounds good.

[Guest WALFY]

There are no secrets

the accounts are readily available for anyone to see.

I have just rtn'd from France so will address this early next week

Welcome back Tony. Hope you enjoyed yourself

[white90]

There is a post in the section only visible to members

If anyone wants the ins and outs to the penny/dates/times etc

they will have to visit me,

[pugwash]

thanks Tony- much appreciated.

[white90]

thanks Tony- much appreciated.

Is that it then?

after all the interest, only one person posts a reply?

[Les Henson]

Obviously not quite 100% trust.

Les.

[white90]

If Tony only lets the "committee" know about the accounts that's like only letting the board of directors know how a company is getting on. Without letting the shareholders know. Tat is wrong, whenever the subject is brought up all we get is pop over Tony's and have a look. I live fairly close but I wouldn't travel for 2 1/2 hrs to look at a set of books. If a forum member asks to see the books then a set should be mailed to them without question or prejudice.

What make you think this is the way things should be run then Mark?

TBH this is a bluddy cheek to suggest.

if anyone feels the need to check up on me doing this unpaid task then they will need to put themselves out to see the books

if you think I'm mishandling the funds that are donated to this site then you are sadly wrong as a few ££ wouldn't make me sell my sole.

where does it say in any forum that members should be sent the financial records?

all accounts are non alterable/fully traceable.

so if you or anyone else doubts my handing of the job as treasurer now is the time to pipe up.

[python]

i for one was interested in this tread purely as i am considering donating for the good advice i have been given. i had a look at the funds thread and its great to see the forum is secure for a while. i really dont think anyone thinks funds are being mis handled though. just interested in the workings maybe??

[white90]

Glad to hear it.

[Guest WALFY]

Tony

My point was that we all have a vested interest in the forum. So to ask to see the books is not an unreasonable request. Myself,James,Tim,Puggers and a few others live within a couple of hours, not to bad for us but to travel 2hrs to look at the books isn't acceptable. I can combine it with a visit to family. What if Treebloke (Sorry to cite your name, first 1 that sprang to mind) wanted to see the books. Does he have to travel from Wolverhampton to see them. That is out of order.

No one on here has eluded that youare cooking the books or being anything less than honest. It's not cheeky to ask, just a normal question from a forum member with an interest to see the books. Those that know you would trust you with a lot more than the forum funds. You have nothing to fear on the integrity side of life.

But it seems that the mods/admin are the only ones being backbriefed on matters that should be of interest to everyone on here. Therefore I think it is unreasonable to make members travel the length and breadth of the country to see the books. That is why I stated that a set should be sent/faxed/emailed to any interested parties.

As for Les piping up here and stirring the pot, that is out of order. He may be a mod but has nothing to do with the books. So should refrain from making inflammatory comments like that which is like poking a hornets nest at the moment after the O/T thread which he was the centre of.

[white90]

Well you/Puggers etc etc

seem interested then like everyone else if you want to see the books come and look, or perhaps the forum funds should pay for the accounts to be couriered around to each listed member?

or only those who've donated?

You are welcome to your opinion but so am I to mine

and I won't be sending this forums accounts any where, if you and others think this is wrong then say so and you can put forward a person to take over being the treasurer.

After 3years doing the job if anyone wants it or wants to take it on to deal with it better then now is the time.

Mods and admins are charged with running the site and do so voluntarily.

We'll now see after the account holdings have been made freely available if the level of funding alters.

this has been the concern with make all the info known

you and all users of the site so so freely or donate as you so wish, this doesn't give a donator any more say than some one who has never donated.

or would you suggest a free for all and watch this place crash and burn like LRE did or become a chat room like the old LRO.

happy mediums are hard reached, and pleasing all is impossible.

Like a I said if you or someone esle wants the job

contact MOG/Les/trev/Geoff,

then we can all move on.

[pugwash]

Obviously not quite 100% trust.

Les.

This is a really very inflammatory and unhelpful post.

no one has questioned Tony's integrity and for you to suggest that we have is unacceptable, just as it would be unacceptable for anyone to even hint that Tony is less than honourable.

Tony- i rather suspect that this sticky has got missed a little bit sitting at the top of this page- i'm sure that people will notice it over time.

I don't really understand why it is such a cause for contention to know how the forum is doing financially- and to say that the level of subscriptions may go down because of posting information is irrelevant. If the forum needed funds then there an awful lot of us who would put our hands in our pockets to keep it running, or do the M&As really feel that the forum members need to molly coddled, patronised and kept in the dark about our own forum?

Furthermore asking to see the books is not tantamount to questioning your integrity Tony and i am a little surprised you feel that way TBH. If this information had been posted earlier (even just PM'd to those that had asked) then none of this fuss would have been made. anytime i buy something, or contribute financially to a club or similar than I expect to get some sort of update as to how the club is doing from time to time- once every 3 years is not unreasonable. Most clubs will provide members with accounts at the AGM and that doesn't lead anyone to call into question the integrity of the tresaurer- its just good financial and social sense.

At the moment a perfectly reasonable request by a couple of forum contributors is being "spun" as an attack on the integrity of the moderators and treasurer- its turning an honest request into something it isn't and then beating the members up about it. Do you think this is a reasonable attitude to take?

[Happyoldgit]

<snip>

If this information had been posted earlier (even just PM'd to those that had asked) then none of this fuss would have been made. <snip>

Don't forget Tony has been away.

[FridgeFreezer]

Tony is running this the same way other clubs do - our club treasurer has held the role at various clubs and is pretty professional at it. He will make the accounts available to any club member who asks to see them, and publishes a summary at the AGM for people to see.

Obviously there's no AGM on a forum so that bit's irrelevant, however the summary is now available for members to see so I would say that this has been covered - the question was asked, and as soon as Tony was available to respond, he has. I'm sure if there were a specific question or more detail required that information would be made available - but I would not expect the onus to be on Tony or any other mods/admin to put themselves out any more than they already do to address queries from members.

We seem to be having a bit of a silly season for some reason, let's get back to arguing about winches'n'axles'n'tyres'n'engines and taking the p*ss out of Al & Will

[white90]

What does surprise me Is I have only ever had one person inquire about the forum accounts.

All of a sudden it is mentioned that I should post them to any member.

which members? the ones that have paid a few ££ in?

or any member should have access to the Accounts?

who So I trust everyone? no one?

would you consider me wise or foolish to let the accounts/information out of some form of control?

perhaps a nice new member who sends us a £10 from Nigeria then demands to see the accounts.

I have extended the offer from Day one to send the accounts to a Moderator or admin should they wish to check them over

even access to the forums pay-pal accounts if they want to check on transactions.

if any member feels the need to look into the running of this site then they'll have to see me, as I am the one with the accounts info

accesses and books.

I have no concerns whatsoever about every single transaction.

As I have said I wouldn't sell my sole for a few ££.

should all of this be freely available?I think not.

If you are surprised by my reaction that is your prerogative, as after 3years doing this job from day 1 as a founder with a few others of this site

my interest has only ever been to get it financially secure and running well for the benefit of the members.

if you want to discuss this further PM me I'll call you, so as not to drag this out unless you want me to type me replies for all to see.

which is also ok.

So as to avoid this in future I will post the account status every 3months in the same way I have now, in the section for members only.

anyone wanting to peruse the accounts will need to contact me, If I am attending a forum get together I will bring them along.

but I'm keeping an eye on them or another mod/admin can have them for a member to visit.

As I am the one where the buck stops where money and the finances of this web site are concerned.

in case anyone reading this thinks I am wrong Contact Les/Steve/Trev/Geoff.

[white90]

you posted whilst I was John.

On your last line indeed it does appear to be silly season

and Wills measurements just cost me £300 for new stazworks inserts

As he is a forum member and indeed a good financial contributor perhaps the forum would like to cover he error on my behalf

Now rather than this descend into mods/members argument, which for this site would be a first.

I suggest following Johns suggestion and moving on.

Sniping at Les for his comments is not on either he is the biggest contributor to this site in terms of time/money and only has its

best interests at heart. and again was one of the founders of this site for all to use.

[Mo Murphy]

So as to avoid this in future I will post the account status every 3months in the same way I have now, in the section for members only.

Tony,

Splendid, we can all see how the forum's doing Notwithstanding Les' contribution to the forum, the snipe was still uncalled for. I didn't see this up at the top until just now.

Mo

[Guest WALFY]

What does surprise me Is I have only ever had one person inquire about the forum accounts.

All of a sudden it is mentioned that I should post them to any member.

which members? the ones that have paid a few ££ in?

or any member should have access to the Accounts?

who So I trust everyone? no one?

would you consider me wise or foolish to let the accounts/information out of some form of control?

1 perhaps a nice new member who sends us a £10 from Nigeria then demands to see the accounts.

2 I have extended the offer from Day one to send the accounts to a Moderator or admin should they wish to check them over

even access to the forums pay-pal accounts if they want to check on transactions.

if any member feels the need to look into the running of this site then they'll have to see me, as I am the one with the accounts info

accesses and books.

I have no concerns whatsoever about every single transaction.

As I have said I wouldn't sell my sole for a few ££.

should all of this be freely available?I think not.

If you are surprised by my reaction that is your prerogative, as after 3years doing this job from day 1 as a founder with a few others of this site

my interest has only ever been to get it financially secure and running well for the benefit of the members.

if you want to discuss this further PM me I'll call you, so as not to drag this out unless you want me to type me replies for all to see.

which is also ok.

So as to avoid this in future I will post the account status every 3months in the same way I have now, in the section for members only.

anyone wanting to peruse the accounts will need to contact me, If I am attending a forum get together I will bring them along.

but I'm keeping an eye on them or another mod/admin can have them for a member to visit.

As I am the one where the buck stops where money and the finances of this web site are concerned.

in case anyone reading this thinks I am wrong Contact Les/Steve/Trev/Geoff.

To reply in a sensible attitude now.

1. I understand your concerns about sending the books out to anyone. But if you quantify me on par with a nigerian who you wouldn't trust with the books then I am deeply insulted by that. I also have been around from the beginning as well. Member 99 I think. So i'm not exactly a stranger round here.

2. Why would you send the books to another mod/admin but not another forum member ? That smacks of nepetism. Keeping the books within the inner sanctum of the forum. You keep saying pop over to see the books, but as you've stated that we should trust you. Which I do. It's just that if I came over to see the books what sort of reception will I get? You obviously don't want people to look at the books by saying that they have to come to you.

I do value the forum greatly. The wide range of characters and knowledge base is second to none on the net. You keep eluding to the amount people donate to the forum in your last couple of posts? Is there a reason?

[FridgeFreezer]

Walfy - if member number or joining date is some form of ranking then can I pull rank and tell you to shut up?

Seriously though, I see the other side of this but it's all a bit overblown. As has been said more than once, all members are (or should be) treated equally regardless of how well we know each other, who posts most, when they joined, if they've donated to funds, etc. You can't then have one member being "more equal" than others just because he's been around longer or donated money to the funds.

As for "why make the accounts available to the mods/admin but not us lot?" - for starters it's information that is not really for broadcast across the interweb for various security reasons, and secondly it means a trusted group of people have reviewed Tony's work and verified it's all above board. Unless they were all in on any sort of dodgy practice Tony was running, any problems would be picked up and sorted as the mods want the same thing we do - a great forum. Frankly even given the vast piles of cash in the forum coffers I doubt very much Tony could buy the whole mods team off and emigrate with the proceeds.

So... winches and axles and engines and grinders then?

[V8CAMEL]

So... winches and axles and engines and grinders then?

what axles are best for rooster tails and is there a particular engine size/BHP that is required.

Can you rooster tail with a diesel?

[Guest WALFY]

Walfy - if member number or joining date is some form of ranking then can I pull rank and tell you to shut up?

No you can't

[bishbosh]

Right, to throw my hat in the ring:

1. Tony has my full support as Treasurer.

2. I felt that an email synopsis to those who enquire was not unreasonable, but

3. Tony is the Treasurer, he does it for nowt and I think we should defer to his judgement. I think how he has managed it now is also appropriate.

4. If you don't like how Tony does it then vote him out or put up with it. (I refer you to point 1 above just to be clear on this point )

5. Mark, I think you need to let the red mist settle. At no time did Tony compare you to a scamming Nigerian.

6. Fridge - leccy or hydraulic tyres.....?

[pugwash]

Do portals make your axles fall over?

why don't winch boys accept that hydraulic is better than electric?

are landcruisers actually better than landrovers?

why does my welding look like pigeon diarrhea?

What welder should i buy?

Will the ancillaries from a 200tdi fit a 300tdi?