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Stupid question time...


V8david
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Hi all. Two questions really...

1: Can someone give me a difinitive figure for setting the swivel preload. With the seals in place (i.e. I want to set them by just taking the wheel off, disconnecting the steering rods and not dropping swivel grease all over the drive!) I have heard 14lbs resistance from my local independant LR specialist, please advise!

2: Where can I find the stepper motor/idle air bypass valve (etc. etc. heard so many different names!). It's a 3.5 Efi. Various descriptions i've heard are vague to say the least, and pictures I've managed to find do not look like what's under my bonnet.

So there you go, 2 stupid questions...

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If it's flapper type EFI (ECU has "14CU" written on it and is large and silver) the idle air bypass valve is in front of the plenum, above the thermostat housing. It's at the very top of this photo:

IMG_0020.jpg

In this photo you can see the air pipe that wraps round the base of the plenum, feeds into the idle air valve, out the other side and into the plenum:

IMG_0019.jpg

If it's a hotwire type (smaller, black ECU with "14CUX" written on it) then the idle stepper solenoid is mounted on the back face of the plenum and looks like this:

idlervalve.jpg

W01331603948LUC.JPG

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What's up with your air valve exactly? They're basic things at heart and I'm not overly aware of problems with them.

Not sure anything is up with it really, just read about taking them off and giving them a good clean.

I have slightly annoying symtoms of occasional poor idle. After starting it struggles to idle and sometimes stalls when I put her into 'D' and the revs drop.

This soon settles and after a short run she'll idle at 750RPM in 'P' and 'N' and drop to 500RPM when I put her into gear.

This also happens after a run. She'll be performing fine but if I switch the engine off, say at a services or at the supermarket, or even just to fill up, when I restart I get the same problem. It has trouble idling and will sometimes stall when I select 'D'.

Again this soon clears once I get going and is fine within minutes. The problem can happen during a run, without switching the engine off and on, but not to the same extent and nowhere near as bad as switching off and on again.

So anyway, I've read about the stepper and it's a nice easy job to do, worth giving it a clean anyway even if it does nothing...

I think what I should do is work through the efi manual from the tech archive...

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Attach a spring balance to ball joint bore and pull balance to determine effort required to turn swivel pin houhousing.

Resesance, once initial inertia has been overcome, should be 1.16 >>1.46kg. adjust by removing or adding shims to top swivel pin

When setting is correct remove top swivel bolts apply loctite and refit to 78 Nm and bend over lock tabs.

Hope this helps copied out of the land rover manual.

(must figure out how to cut and paste off that PDF)

Regards

Dougie

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Attach a spring balance to ball joint bore and pull balance to determine effort required to turn swivel pin houhousing.

Resesance, once initial inertia has been overcome, should be 1.16 >>1.46kg. adjust by removing or adding shims to top swivel pin

When setting is correct remove top swivel bolts apply loctite and refit to 78 Nm and bend over lock tabs.

Hope this helps copied out of the land rover manual.

(must figure out how to cut and paste off that PDF)

Regards

Dougie

Cheers Dougie. Just what i needed mate.

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......So anyway, I've read about the stepper and it's a nice easy job to do, worth giving it a clean anyway even if it does nothing.....

This is not a stepper. The stepper comes in on the 3.9.

It is a ceramic disc with a hole in which is rotated by a bimetallic strip and a heater.

I may be off here so someone correct me. I believe the heater is driven through the thermo-time switch which should go live with ignition. The whole thing assumes the valve will close in about the same time the engine warms up.

I don't believe the valve functions during hot starts as engine heat keeps it closed even though the switch has removed power to the heater. It certainly does not perform like a stepper to add more air for A/C load etc.

Steve

ETA

Right you had your chance to correct me and missed it so I will have to correct myself.

Thermo-time switch only drives the cold start injector.

The Extra Air Valve is powered from the fuel pump circuit so only has power once air is passing through the flapper.

The other side of the EAV is connected to the ECU so I have no idea when that decides to complete the circuit but have to assume it is engine temperature dependant.

Steve

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What Steve_D said is basically correct, the early air valve is just a thermostatic thing. It works on engine heat, plus has a small heater element that the ECU switches on when you start the car, unless it's really cold. If you idle speed is changing every few seconds (or even minutes) it's probably not to blame as it only gradually opens & closes with heat.

It's item 21 here:

lucas_efi_1982_1984.jpg

The stepper type can indeed control engine RPM "real time".

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i usualy set the preload with oil or the swivel grease and the seal fitted to @ 15lbs resistance though when i rebuilt mine last year with all new parts i did set them to 18lbs and they have been fine no sticking and the self centering has been fine too

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I do mine at around 14lbs using a fishing spring dodah, without the seal in, as the seal tightens and increases the preload once fitted slightly :)

However, once you are happy with the preload, just as - if not more importnat is to then turn the entire swivel without springs or anything, and "Feel" the smoothness of the swivel moving from full lock to full lock, if it feels ridgey or lurchy, where it maybe goes tigher / looser or jerky during the full movement, then although the preload may be OK the bearings in the swival is NOT and you should change them for new so you get the sliky smooth movment

This last bit can be a bit easier by fitting just a rim giving more leverage, (I have made a bit lump of steel which is about 2.5" by 15 inches (er by 10mm - look it was just there lying about OK ? :P ) with 3x stud holes and bolt it to the hub for this very purpose :) )but less efoort so you can feel and concentrate on the movemtn smoothness rather than hercualian grunting to get it to move followed by "CLOCK" as it then hits full lock :lol:

HTH

Nige

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Thanks very much all. Most helpful. I always thought the recommended setting for the swivels felt a bit light.

As usual with old landrovers it's down to 'feel'! :rolleyes::lol:

Thanks all for excellent and intelligent answers to my stupid questions ;)

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