mucdup3.5 Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Hi all, continuation of saga regarding my 1987/88 rr 3.5 efi autoi. Went to local shopping centre in it on Tuesday 4 miles from house, and it went very well. Stopped in car park, came out an hr later and it wouldn't start no matter what I did/ fiddled with. This has happened before so I lef it there overnight and went back the following night still no start. I left it there again and went back tonight. It started first time and drove absolutely perfectly. The last time this happened it took 2 days to start again, and it is as if it is on a timer!!! I can't understand it. Ideas Everybody Please?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Can we assume that when it wouldn't start it was spinning nicely and that you removed a plug and found that there was petrol and a good healthy spark at the nice clean pug? Sorry - being facetious here... All the 'usual suspects' * pop into mind, but since it is an EFI there are probably a couple of others involving the ECU and it's attendant wiring. Although I don't know the ECU on your model (I think it is a 14CU) I am familiar with the 14CUX from the 1990 model year and my thoughts are based on this: There is a (probably white with black tracer) wire that runs from the negative side of the coil to the ECU and tells it that the engine is spinning and hence it should give some fuel. On mine this was very thin and cheap looking and hanging by a thread at the coil connector. There are the temperature sensors - one for water and one for fuel - and their wiring, that are used to decide how much enrichment to give. There is the throttle position sensor and it's wiring. There is the air flow meter (it would be a flapper on yours?) and it's wiring. Information on how to check all of the above is in the technical archive and basically all you need is a multimeter and some time and patience. One other possibility is an intermittent fault in the wiring to the fuel pump (or the inertia switch). I am afraid that I can't think of a silver bullet - since it is an intermittent fault it's a matter of being methodical and checking everything in detail. Best of luck with it Roger * Ususal suspects - presence of petrol and presence of spark usually validates most of these: spark plugs, plug leads, distributor cap, rotor arm, fuel pipe, fuel filter, fuel pump (but see above), fuel tank vacuum, etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastcard Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Welcome to the Wonky Flapper Club. Agree with above regarding a methodical runthrough. Just to note on the flapper system (which you should have) the fuel pump is triggered by the Air Flow Meter flap (hence flapper) opening during cranking. So worth checking that your flap is free to move and test it with the ignition on by just opening it slightly (access via air filter side) and you should hear the pump running. If you have run a backfiring LPG system, these can damage the AFM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_d Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Filling in your profile so we know where you live may help. Someone local may be prepared to come round and have a laugh at your expense. And, of course, eat your Hobnobs. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldShep56 Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Steve_D, I notice you're from Waterlooville.... as you can see I am just up the road and I am looking for someone who knows about P38's so I don't have to pay Guy Salmon's down at Pompey another £1600 next time it goes wrong. Do you know anyone local to us? Or even yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mucdup3.5 Posted August 9, 2008 Author Share Posted August 9, 2008 Hi all, Thanks everybody for the suggestions. I had a good look over the rover Fri morning once I had finally got it started and brought it home from the local shopping centre carpark where it had been languishing and refusing to start no matter what I fiddled with since Tues night. I noticed that there was a lot of oil on the black and white wires going into the ignition module which you describe. Also most of the other connections you describe such as the thermostat sensor and thermotime switch were all dry and had verdigree and white deposits on them. I have cleaned them all up and added some protective lubricant. I tested the car by starting and driving it then leaving it for a while then started it again, and so far it seems to be starting ok - until the next time. I've only just started with this vehicle but from my experiences so far and from what I have experienced so far they are not really fit for purpose no wonder the guy that sold it to me grinned when he said he had a landcruiser now. Thanks, Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastcard Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Depending on your setup, that black/white wire IIRC is located near to the left rear engine breather, so may be worth checking all your breathers etc. for blockages if it is covered in oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 .... from what I have experienced so far they are not really fit for purpose .... I am sorry to hear you say that, and I can completely understand the frustration of the recently bought vehicle that fails to live up to expectations (having been through it many times myself - most recently with my Disco), but after all it is 20 years old... Hopefully - once you get confident in it's reliability - you will start to like it again. In the mean time as you go on the adventure that is Land Rover product ownership - you will find nothing less than top class support on this forum. Stick with it if you can - it's worth it in the end Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_d Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Steve_D, I notice you're from Waterlooville.... as you can see I am just up the road and I am looking for someone who knows about P38's so I don't have to pay Guy Salmon's down at Pompey another £1600 next time it goes wrong. Do you know anyone local to us? Or even yourself? Hi You say 'as you can see I am just up the road' but I can't as you don't have anything in your profile. Anyway, don't know anything much about P38s but there's always a chance to learn. If you post your problems up here there is bound to be someone who can help and the south is blessed with quite a number of active LR4x4 members. There's two of us in my road. Feel free to air your problems you will always get a response even if it is laced with innuendo and pi$$ take. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 OldShep - you could also consider joining a local club such as the Shire Land Rover Club, we're local to you (assuming you're local to Steve_D) and have loads of helpful members. I'm pretty sure there's more than one of us with a diagnostic computer too. Oh yes - and filling in your profile always helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldShep56 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Oooooooooops, sorry, Steve and Fridge ............ profile now amended. I had forgotten to fill it in. I was really looking for someone to do its services etc ( I am a first time RR owner ) who isn't going to charge me the ridiculous rates Guy Salmon does. I have just had the classic EAS fault which according to Mr. Salmons darling little operatives required 4 new airbags and a compressor. Hence the £1600 bill. I know I could have got it done a bit cheaper and if I had the time, could have done it myself but I work away in Europe a lot. I shall have a look at the Shires Club asap. Thanx for the tip. Sorry for hijacking your thread, Mucdup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mucdup3.5 Posted August 12, 2008 Author Share Posted August 12, 2008 Hi all, Thanks for the replies folks, and I appreciate your words of comfort and advice Roger. Yes I have owned many cars and most of them elderly I remember an 1967 Austin Westminster A110 that seemed like it had green seats when I bought it. Actually they were tan coloured just covered in verdigree ha ha. I used to be able to see the road out of the passenger footwell. It was thoroughly reliable during the 3yrs I owned it and the engine was superb - I sold it to a guy for his MGC. I love the `command position' of the Range Rover and I can imagine if I were a country person it would be jolly handy for sheep, bales of hay in the back, and the like, but I can see straight away that this efi is a nonsense which is just incurably bad design. I only bought the thing to empty my aunt's house as she's gone into a home, and I was going to buy a trailer but I have just lost confidence in going anywhere in it because it might throw an untraceable and untreatable wobbler. It is a pity because so many things have been done on it. New fuel tank, tyres, steering, low range driveshaft etc; C'est la vie, back to ebay I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I have just lost confidence in going anywhere in it because it might throw an untraceable and untreatable wobbler.Understandable... Although it sounds like there is a good chance that your current randomly repeating problem could be down to one intermittent fault - and with the fact that: so many things have been done on it. New fuel tank, tyres, steering, low range driveshaft etc;if you fix the fault then it sounds like you might have a goodun C'est la vie, back to ebay I think.Let us know when you list it Roger p.s. Before someone else says it: Of course you could always change to a hotwire AFM and fit MegaSquirt and at one fell swoop remove any reliance on the current ECU, distributor and coil, and their associated wiring... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mucdup3.5 Posted August 22, 2008 Author Share Posted August 22, 2008 Hi Roger, What is megasquirt is the hotwire maf easy to do? Thanks, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 What is megasquirt is the hotwire maf easy to do? The search button & tech archive are your friends MegaSquirt replaces the Lucas ECU and is open-source and tunable "DIY", it will run EDIS ignition and in fact does away with any airflow meter whatsoever. I believe Roger may have meant "switch to the hotwire injectors" as they're a nicer setup when running MS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=15317 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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