Tay Forest Challenge 2008

[Daan]

Yes, wings are a consumable on my car .

I suppose the prison thing is a bit harsh, if your car is legal then it shouldnt be such a worry. I do a good check of the car before I set of normally.

Yes, in my case its a bit of needs must situation, I cant really justify having a large towing vehicle and trailer for 2 events a year.

Daan

[Steve 90]

That all may be the case, but for me and some others, I have to drive 500 miles back on the road with the comp truck, and will drive accordingly. It is harder to compete on a drive to survive basis, while the rest is treating the event like a demolition darby. I have been criticised for this, but I think the event should involve the roadmiles bit just to stop the demo darby element of it; Also, the rules of the event did cater for this, and than it appears all those rules have gone out of the window overnight.

Constructive critisism from my side, to what is otherwise a great event and we enjoyed it very much.

Daan

Demolition derby????? Surely the desire to get a decent result would stop that. To do well you have to finish and if you treat it like a demolition derby you aint going to finish. We were second last year and the only damage to both cars was a broken Mirror and bent track rods (also a winch failure that dropped us some time but that's just one of those things). So we don't knock the truck about but I still would not want to play Russian roulette with other road users lives by unnecessarily driving the truck on the road. No matter how well you check it over there's no way you can be sure there isn't a track rod end about to brake off or a brake hose about to burst. Even the most careful driver in the world will have a slip up now and again and could risk that sort of damage without knowing. I will use the truck on the road if the event says we have to but I don't see the point in doing it when its not needed just to say "I drive to and from all events" as I don't think people should, Its just not safe.

[bathtub]

Demolition darby? all i had on my truck was a small dent in the door, i do however remember the wings on your car . I did not drive to the forest because i dont want to be pulled by the police for having broken lights, brake lines hanging off, etc etc. It makes sence to use the trailer if you have one. If you want to drive your truck on the road after competing thats up to you. If your TRE brakes off on the way back because you never spotted it, covered in mud etc.. and you then susiquently kill someone then you might change your opinion when your sat in prison.

Same here

Apart from the 3 -link i didnt even scratch a light lense

Mind you Chris i do have ,

A wind screen

Lights & indicators

Insurance

Tax

MOT

UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus i drove it to scrutineering & back

[dollythelw]

I think Daan you're also forgetting the potential kittens and nuns that could be wounded by an expoding crankshaft.

[gibbon]

Not aloud to use them. The forest challenge is run in conjunction with the Scottish forestry commission. Andy has a good rapport with them so minimal damage.

Ok point taken, I'm gonna start training for next years event by climbing tree's! lol

[steffUK]

Mr.T

So monkey's are allowed, but chainsaws are not. Is there a restriction on how many co-driver(s) a car can have?

Could you also please clarify the rules for what is classified as a "car". Is a tire size limit and a weight limit?

Thanks

S

[Chris Abel]

Same here

Apart from the 3 -link i didnt even scratch a light lense

Mind you Chris i do have ,

A wind screen

Lights & indicators

Insurance

Tax

MOT

UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus i drove it to scrutineering & back

I have all of the above apart form the wind screen thankyou. I also drove to Scrutineering

[Boothy]

I'm 99% sure that any vehicle having full hydualic steering should not pass an MOT classed as PLG or as a normal vehicle, which I think is class 4.

Because of the lack of a mechanical link between the steering wheel and the steering linkages the vehicle should be classed as agricultural or plant and be classed as such on the logbook, and as such have it's speed restricted.

If any part of the hydraulic system fails for any reason i.e. low fluid, pump failure, ram failure or hose failure, then God help the public and I'm sure the driver might also be sat in a small white room for a while to reflect on things, with perhaps the clown that signed the MOT certificate with him for company.

[Steve 90]

I'm 99% sure that any vehicle having full hydualic steering should not pass an MOT classed as PLG or as a normal vehicle, which I think is class 4.

Because of the lack of a mechanical link between the steering wheel and the steering linkages the vehicle should be classed as agricultural or plant and be classed as such on the logbook, and as such have it's speed restricted.

If any part of the hydraulic system fails for any reason i.e. low fluid, pump failure, ram failure or hose failure, then God help the public and I'm sure the driver might also be sat in a small white room for a while to reflect on things, with perhaps the clown that signed the MOT certificate with him for company.

Why should "the clown that signed the MOT certificate" as you put it have anything to do with it. You can only fail a vehicle for MOT if there is a RFR (Reson for refusal) as set out by Vosa. There is nothing saying that a vehicle can fail an MOT for not having a mechanical link in the sterring so it will pass. Think your getting that confused with Cons & use.

[Boothy]

Steve, I was disscussing this a while back with my brother who is a Ford Master technician and has been an MOT tester for over 25 years, at the time I was seriously considering fitting full hydro system, but then a full fledged conversation started with a couple of other testers where he works about the legalities and eventually I left the idea.

Perhaps your right with the bit about the MOT tester but I feel sure I'm right about the rest of it,

so who could the driver be sharing with?

[dollythelw]

sorry boothy but you've been a little mislead, pump failure, dead engine or low fluid will still leave you with steering on an orbitrol setup, if you pull a hose off then the steering becomes inoperative.

in a similar vein to a sector shaft snapping, tre's snapping, drag links, arms etc.

I know what will break first and its not full hydro.

theres no requirement for a mechanical link in a PLG vehicle MOT test - RTM.

[Mr Nick]

Hay Simon ! Bet you couldn't sit on a branch that thin Maybe a banana diet till next year then

[filthy boy]

sorry boothy but you've been a little mislead, pump failure, dead engine or low fluid will still leave you with steering on an orbitrol setup, if you pull a hose off then the steering becomes inoperative.

in a similar vein to a sector shaft snapping, tre's snapping, drag links, arms etc.

I know what will break first and its not full hydro.

theres no requirement for a mechanical link in a PLG vehicle MOT test - RTM.

For any of the type of vehicles we are running to be LEGALLY on the road there MUST be a mechanical steering link from steering wheel to steered wheels that is of metal or material with similar properties. This is the official policy line from DfT. This is what makes a vehicle legal to be on the road, NOT the MOT. C&U is the fundamental rule that always applies. I had this discussion with the policy lead at DfT who writes C&U. Not some MOT tester who knows my aunties cousins monkey handler.

If you are in a vehicle that is modified to full hydraulic and you have an accident on the road then you are driving an illegal vehicle, does not matter a jot if you wave your MOT certificate about. Your insurance company will declare your insurance void, although will probably have to honour any third party claim. They will then pursue you to recover this cost. Meanwhile you will be having a serious talk with the police and facing some pretty stiff penalties depending how much harm your accident may have caused.

The defence "my hydro is built really well Ossifer so it won't / shouldn't have broken" is not very robust!

Having said that there is no problem running full hydro. Howe have been testing some in the desert well in excess of 100 mph. It is just not legal to run it on UK roads. MOT or not. FULL STOP

Tim

PS Chris, got an SVA for that portal conversion?

[Steve 90]

Just to clear things up, I was not arguing the legality of full Hydro. I was just making the point there is no way a vehicle can fail an MOT because of it. Just annoys me continually reading "you cant do that coz it wont pass MOT" when the person saying that obviously doesn't know what is involved and is stating something that is NOT a fact. If you dont know, why say anything?

Having a Valid MOT and being legal to drive on the road through construction and use regulations are two completely different things.

I'll leave it to everyone else to argue over legality . I know my opinion, but im keeping that to myself

[dollythelw]

I just cant be arsed

[nicks90]

but theres the rub -

why bother getting an MOT (which is required to legally drive on UK roads) when your vehicle is illegal to drive on UK roads due to full hydro??????

Doesnt make sense. So in some senses i can understand why some people would say you would 'fail' an MOT for full hydro - as an MOT is a safety spot check and as full hydro is deemed 'unsafe' in this country, then it theroretically should fail an MOT.

[alan kemp]

I'm 99% sure that any vehicle having full hydualic steering should not pass an MOT classed as PLG or as a normal vehicle, which I think is class 4.

Because of the lack of a mechanical link between the steering wheel and the steering linkages the vehicle should be classed as agricultural or plant and be classed as such on the logbook, and as such have it's speed restricted.

If any part of the hydraulic system fails for any reason i.e. low fluid, pump failure, ram failure or hose failure, then God help the public and I'm sure the driver might also be sat in a small white room for a while to reflect on things, with perhaps the clown that signed the MOT certificate with him for company.

Boothy, there is as much chance of breaking a hydraulic component as there is say breaking a brake component. Mine steers when the pump is not working the same as when a lr steerng box loses power steering.

[alan kemp]

On the other hand, I am still looking for someone to supply me with a mechnical link to run along for the ride with my full hydro just to meet the SVA requirements on Portalcat. Apparently this can be done but no one wants to sell it.

Please dont suggest I fit hydro assist ta...

[Steve 90]

I just cant be arsed

Good answer!

[Chris Abel]

I just cant be arsed

I like that answer too

lets not turn this thread into a MOT, road legal, SVA, thread.

[Chris Abel]

Hay Simon ! Bet you couldn't sit on a branch that thin Maybe a banana diet till next year then

Simons in training at the Zoo again.. he was on banana's & Red bull at Tay but he still cant fly.

[steffUK]

You think we could cross breed Simon with a beaver? That would solve the "chainsaws not allowed" problem!

[Boothy]

Hello Alan,

The hydro that I was planning did not steer without the pump running which is what put me staight of,

I hold my hands up and say that I it was not aware untill Saley told me this morning that his would steer without pressure.

That is the main reason that I backed straight off the idea, and are going to hydro assist, and still will, instead even though I realise it's an inferior system.

I don't, probably like most lads, drive mine on the road unless essential for obvious reasons and none of them are the likelyhood of a mechanical failure.

Most of the mechanically minded of us are all fully aware of what can be strained and damaged following any time spent off road (and that doesn't include the credit card) and I personally don't want to risk myself or anybody else for that matter by driving back on the road. Let alone damage to tyres etc due to poor tracking and so on.

[Boothy]

Sorry Chris,

I got disturbed and didn't see you lets forget it thread.

Forget it.

[simon red90]

Simons in training at the Zoo again.. he was on banana's & Red bull at Tay but he still cant fly.

work is in progress. fingers crossed i'll be able to keep up with all of mr abels 400 horses next year.

as for bananas and red bull, that is my diet, come on, you wouldnt think i'm this shape without it!?

You think we could cross breed Simon with a beaver? That would solve the "chainsaws not allowed" problem!

the only beaver i'm breeding with is part of a girls anatomy!

Good answer!

as for eveyone moaning about "when your hose fails and you kill someone... blah blah blah. i hope like hell that the ball joints on my low loader dont fail. because that will be nearer 150ton of steel which wont be stopped by a lot. people will die.

a challenge truck will not be going more than 40 (at the absolute most) and at the worst case you can slam on the anchors and stop in under 50 yards regardless of direction. as for mots and all that ****, can all those who dont have concrete facts, thats is anyone who is going on rumour, hearsay, my mate said this, barry from bodgeitandscarper motors said this.... SHUT UP MOANING ABOUT SOMETHING WHICH IS OUT OF THEIR CONTROL.

and if not, tell me the difference between a fastrac and a challenge truck. anyone who knows anything will steer well clear of, "agricultural tax" because that is a bul**** answer for those who waste the use of such a machine.

rant over.