Eduardo Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 In the Land Rover GTR appears te following service bulletin issued some weeks ago: Somebody with this trouble? Regards Title: 2.4 Puma Engine Knock Noise. Type: LD - Defender - All Years - Special Service Messages - Engine Name / Part No: SSM38792 Info Type: Service Bulletins Version No: 1 Date Uploaded: 21 Jul 2008 Models: LD - Defender Title: 2.4 Puma Engine Knock Noise. Last Modified: 21-JUL-2008 09:44 Category: Engine Symptom: 497000 Engine Noise Content Issue: Heavy audible knocking heard on start up. Cause: On start up oil pressures can cause the piston cooling jets, (PCJ), to latch into a zero flow condition. Due to hysteresis effect in design the jets do not unlatch until the engine is warm and the oil pressures lower again. During this time with no pressurized oil jet flow to the lower pistons / cylinder bores, overheat and scuff conditions / damage can occur. Action: Replace the engine assy but ensure only engines post serial # ELD00080707063602 are used. This condition will not occur on vehicles post assured Vin# 9A767162. Engines post the info above are fitted with modified PCJ internal springs and this issue is now closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 so when did 9A767162 come off the production line then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Very recently! 2009 MY start production about now I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted August 25, 2008 Author Share Posted August 25, 2008 Don´t know, Mine is 7A7499352 and was manufactured in Oct 07 . Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Wright Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 On start up oil pressures can cause the piston cooling jets, (PCJ), to latch into a zero flow condition... So - is there anything potentially afflicted owners can do to reduce the likelihood of this problem arising, or is it quite out of our control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruntus Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Should this effectively be a recall? An expensive one to address for Land Rover so I suspect they will keep quiet about it unless people complain. The problem is how do you tell if its problematic, most garages will say its just diesel noise while its cold and most people would accept it. I dont own a PUMA so it doesn't affect me but it does sound like a bit of a design flaw. Eduardo thanks for posting this. Cheers G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Not an expert, but lack of oil in the cylinders would not be a source of much noise. I guess LR found this problem out in another way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Wright Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I wonder if this problem is also present on the Transit and London Taxi using the same Puma/Duratorq engines?, or is the LR Puma a special in this respect. If it effects Transits then it's a much larger problem for Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I wonder if this problem is also present on the Transit and London Taxi using the same Puma/Duratorq engines?, or is the LR Puma a special in this respect. If it effects Transits then it's a much larger problem for Ford. Not sure, but I believe engines for LR were slightly modified by some %$ for off road conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nas90 Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 mmmmmmmmmmm................ V8, petrol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 mmmmmmmmmmm................ V8, petrol mmmmmmmmmmmm.........................Td5....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 mmmmmmmmmmmm.........................Td5....... Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm nice shiny new 300Tdi AND a 4.0 V8 I guess the "noise" is a horrible banging noise like you might get if you have a round piston in an oval shaped hole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSi110 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Can anyone point specifically to where in the GTR this bulletin is, please? A friend needs this reference quickly to try and clear up a long-running warranty dispute on his '07 110. Any help GREATLY appreciated!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Wright Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Can anyone point specifically to where in the GTR this bulletin is, please?A friend needs this reference quickly to try and clear up a long-running warranty dispute on his '07 110. Any help GREATLY appreciated!! Well, go to www.landrovertechinfo.com, log in (or register, then log in), select Defender and Special Service Messages and you will see it listed along with all previous messages. However, to get further, i.e. to see the body of the message, you have to be a paid subscriber to GTR, it's not a free service. I presume any dealer will have access to the system given the correct SSM reference number, or just print out the text given above, and give it to your local friendly LR dealer for attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted August 27, 2008 Author Share Posted August 27, 2008 Well, go to www.landrovertechinfo.com, log in (or register, then log in), select Defender and Special Service Messages and you will see it listed along with all previous messages. However, to get further, i.e. to see the body of the message, you have to be a paid subscriber to GTR, it's not a free service.I presume any dealer will have access to the system given the correct SSM reference number, or just print out the text given above, and give it to your local friendly LR dealer for attention. That's rigth. In general for each vehicle that I bougth i suscribe in order to have acces to the workshop manual. The service message was retrieved from there. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted August 27, 2008 Author Share Posted August 27, 2008 I was looking without success through Google if the problem also were found in other Duratorq engines. So, should be a part of the modificatios made by LR My thougth is that will be treated similar to the oil sump problem (change as service go). By the way, I just sent the information to my dealer contact (in the warranty dept) to request more information. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSi110 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 That'll be useful. I'd appreciate any feedback to pass on. Many thanks for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Thanks Eduardo. I've forwarded this to defender2.net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallycinq Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Not sure, but I believe engines for LR were slightly modified by some %$ for off road conditions. The dual mass flywheel is missing for a start, thank goodness. Cheers D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Thanks Eduardo. I've forwarded this to defender2.net. I was not aware of this site. Pretty good one Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvio Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Any update? Which is the attitude LR and their dealers show about this issue? The usual "deny, deny and then finally ... deny"?? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted October 2, 2008 Author Share Posted October 2, 2008 Any update?Which is the attitude LR and their dealers show about this issue? The usual "deny, deny and then finally ... deny"?? Thanks Silvio, Not so much to said. Our dealer (regretably far away from UK) said us that if a vehicle will have this problem they will proceed according the SSM but they believe that will affect only some cars . Until now, As far as I know, at least in Chile, no one have presented the problem. Will be very good to know how many Pumas around the world have this problem already, to have an idea of how spread it is. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvio Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Hi Eduardo, thanks for the reply! Here in Italy some fellow deforder owners are wondering whether it would be better to replace those oil jets in anycase with the modified type, just to be on the safe side. Even without LR cooperation, it shouldn't be an expensive option (provided it is feasible with the mere removal of the sump), and can give you a relative peace of mind for the future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeerover Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Hi Eduardo, thanks for the reply!Here in Italy some fellow deforder owners are wondering whether it would be better to replace those oil jets in anycase with the modified type, just to be on the safe side. Even without LR cooperation, it shouldn't be an expensive option (provided it is feasible with the mere removal of the sump), and can give you a relative peace of mind for the future... Does anybody knows the partnumbers for the old and new oil jets . Or is there any technical drawing so i can see ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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