UK > Dutch Land Rover s3 problem.

[Justus]

Hi,

I’m a 22 year old guy from the Netherlands with a passion for series Land Rovers.

I bought my first Land Rover series 3 88” in the UK last year.

After restoring and investing a lot at it (it was a mess). I now have a well drivable Series 3.

One day I went to the RDW (the dutch DVLA I presume) and there we discovered that the VIN on the chassis was from a 109" rather then the original. It was clear that all the front spring brackets (where the VIN supposed to be) had been replaced for ones of a 109".

In the Netherlands this is a major problem. They won’t give you Dutch license plates when you don’t have the VIN on the chassis wich corresponds to the VIN on the V5 form. The aluminum plate in the car has no value here.

The man who handled the inspection explained that we had a good chance in the UK to restamp the original VIN in the chassis. Because in the UK the Land Rover had MOT till April this year. So the car still holds on to the UK license plate.

I've also heard that it not a big deal to contact the DVLA have them change the VIN on the V5 form.

So any help would be very welcom.

I now have a well driveable s3 88"; but I'm not alowwed to use it.....

Thanks very much,

Just Stegehuis.

Enschede, The Netherlands.

[landmannnn]

The dvla will not just change the vin number. There are all sorts of things you would have to do.

You should always check chassis number against documents before buying, you know that now!

Legally your lr is in a difficult situation.

I would suggest you buy a new spring hanger bracket and fit/weld to replace the 109 item.

Then punch the right number on it.

Don't try grinding the old number off - that would look like you are trying to hide something.

[Justus]

The dvla will not just change the vin number. There are all sorts of things you would have to do.

You should always check chassis number against documents before buying, you know that now!

Legally your lr is in a difficult situation.

I would suggest you buy a new spring hanger bracket and fit/weld to replace the 109 item.

Then punch the right number on it.

Don't try grinding the old number off - that would look like you are trying to hide something.

Restamping the goog VIN in a new bracket is not a option. In the Netherlands they are very keen in spotting that kind of stuff. And they won't thank you for it.

Thats why I would like to solve the problem the right (legal) way.

[Les Henson]

Replacing the dumb iron and re-stamping the vehicle VIN No is not an illegal thing to do though - you are maintaining the vehicles identity. When the 109 ID was put on your 88" - that was illegal.

Les.

[Gazzar]

I think that if you restamp the dumb iron whilst the vehicle is in the UK, get the vehicle a SVA certificate (in the UK), and then represent it with the UK SVA cert to the dutch authorities they may have to take it under EU regulations.

There IS a solution, it's just to find it, and convince your local authorities that they have to accept it.

G.

[yellow]

Get the dumb iron with VIN off a similar aged 88 from the UK, and make sure you have the papers, plates, etc...

I might be able to help you out with this later this year...

Contact me through PB...

[Justus]

Is it legal to restamp the VIN yourself?

That would help a lot.

What is a SVA certificate?

Cheers,

Just.

[JBorges]

I think the best solution is to buy a new spring hanger bracket, in paddocks is "Front chassis repair leg - RH" and cost 23,04 EUR plus VAT, stamp the number and weld.

http://www.paddockspares.com/pp/SERIES/Cha...r_leg_-_RH.html

[Gazzar]

The SVA (Single Vehicle Approval) is a scheme in the UK (and Northern Ireland - I think) that exists for cars that do not have a manufacturers type approval - basically kit cars and the like.

There are Government run SVA centres that examine a car and issue paperwork stating that the vehicle is in accordance with the rules.

Most EU states have a"catchall" in their legislation that allow for "approved within another EU state".

You may have to read the legislation and bring a copy with you, and I understand that the Dutch authorities can be as stubborn and unhelpful (but in a nice friendly way) as any other state but, armed with the paper your should succeed.

You may end up with a different UK number plate but you don't care - all you want is the paper work. Ensure you retain the age of the vehicle if there are any age related exemptions in the Netherlands.

Link thing:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Buyin...hicle/index.htm

g.

[Justus]

Hi,

When they test a vehicle for a SVA. Do they test it to todays standarts? And wil my old Land Rover pass?

Don't you lose your original build date? Because now it's older than 25 year and in the Netherlands I don't have to pay tax for it.

[Gazzar]

I think that if you change the dumb iron to a blank one, and stamp the VIN, then all they check is that the VIN matches the logbook. You shouldn't lose the age if the new vin matches.

You might lose the age if you have the wrong VIN (if you keep the current dumb iron).

The problem is that you'd need to be in the UK to do all this.

I recall that before the SVA regeime the Vechicle Registration Offices in the UK used to instruct kit Car owners to get the Chassis number stamped at a MOT station. A nice man from the ministery would then inspect it and all would be ok.

I've not lived in the UK for years so things may have changed.

Perhaps you could subcontract this to someone?

G.

[FridgeFreezer]

I don't think you want an SVA, I believe you need a VIC - Vehicle Identity Check, which is used in situations like this or for crashed & repaired cars. You do not need to get an SVA since the vehicle is standard, it's only the identity that's in question.

[Justus]

Hi,

A VIC sound like the thing to do. Do I need to be in the UK for the check? And is it a EU certified service?

Thanks for the info!

Just.

[Daan]

Justus, clear one thing up for me: The number stamped in the chassis, is that correct to the registration form, but the registration form is from a 109 or is the chassis number not right to the registration form? Either way, you want to stay clear from the SVA, and even a VIC wouldnt clear up the problem. Any joy with old owner?

Daan

Hi,

I’m a 22 year old guy from the Netherlands with a passion for series Land Rovers.

I bought my first Land Rover series 3 88” in the UK last year.

After restoring and investing a lot at it (it was a mess). I now have a well drivable Series 3.

One day I went to the RDW (the dutch DVLA I presume) and there we discovered that the VIN on the chassis was from a 109" rather then the original. It was clear that all the front spring brackets (where the VIN supposed to be) had been replaced for ones of a 109".

In the Netherlands this is a major problem. They won’t give you Dutch license plates when you don’t have the VIN on the chassis wich corresponds to the VIN on the V5 form. The aluminum plate in the car has no value here.

The man who handled the inspection explained that we had a good chance in the UK to restamp the original VIN in the chassis. Because in the UK the Land Rover had MOT till April this year. So the car still holds on to the UK license plate.

I've also heard that it not a big deal to contact the DVLA have them change the VIN on the V5 form.

So any help would be very welcom.

I now have a well driveable s3 88"; but I'm not alowwed to use it.....

Thanks very much,

Just Stegehuis.

Enschede, The Netherlands.

[Justus]

The number stamped on the chassis is from a 109" (the spring hangers have clearly been rewelded), the number on the aluminum plate in the car and on the papers (V5) is from the original car (88").

I've send the old owner a letter (1,5 month ago), but he hasen't responded yet.

On the internet there wasn't much to find about him. He's called George Micheal King so I only get George Micheal hits.

I'm hoping to vind a hassle free solution for this.

Just.

[JBorges]

Forget the paper work!!

Buy a new Front chassis repair leg - RH and stamp the correct number!!

[Les Henson]

That's exactly right ^^^^^^^^^ you are doing nothing illegal, you are merely retaining the vehicles original identity. If you were caught by the Police in this country with the wrong chassis number on it - they would impound the vehicle pending further investigation and you could be prosecuted - cut and shut vehicle (or the Land Rover equivalent of it anyway).

Les.

[JBorges]

Is the same in Portugal; an vehicle with a different VIN number is illegal (or some numbers are not clear) and the police will confiscate on the spot.

Imagine: If you have an accident and smash the front leg and the only solution is replacing this chassis part.

[Leaf Sprung]

Hi Justus

I am like you on this but have you thought about getting some body filler and filling the number that you dont want, restamp it your self (just below the old one) with number stamps and paint it black take it through some mud get it dirty and try again at the office they will both match and if you have no luck you have not spent to much and still have the oter number for the other options

[Justus]

Hi,

I've just send a question to the DVLA about this.

When they agree with your opinion (that its legal to restamp the VIN yourself).

I will weld an othee spring hanger bracket on the chassis and restamp the VIN.

Dutch authorities then HAVE to give the Land Rover a dutch license because of EU rules.

We will see.

Just.

[Justus]

Well I've got back a reply from the DVLA.

They telling me to contact the nearest Land Rover dealer (I think they mean in the UK).

When I now the good VIN they could "help" me.

Not a very clear answer....

Does it mean; at a Land Rover dealer they restamp the VIN in my chassis?

Is this a normal thing the dealers do in the UK?

In the Netherlands only the goverment can restamp VIN's, so I'm a little confused......

Cheers,

Just.

PS,

I've attached a picture of my 88" so we know what where talking about!

[Les Henson]

It appears that you have to comply with UK law in order for the Netherlands to aknowledge it. Get a set of letter/number punches and put the same chassis number as is in your log book in the same place as it should be. You are then complying with UK law, which is what you need. As has previously been said - your vehicle is at present illegal as it has the chassis number from a 109 on it, when it is in fact an 88" - it is therefore illegal in the UK in it's current state. By stamping the chassis number from your log book onto the vehicle, you are then making it legal by UK law, so then you will have no problems with it in the Netherlands.

Your problem is just a number - change it and that's all you need to do, it's not illegal to do it, so there shouldn't be a problem.

Les.

[Daan]

It appears that you have to comply with UK law in order for the Netherlands to aknowledge it. Get a set of letter/number punches and put the same chassis number as is in your log book in the same place as it should be. You are then complying with UK law, which is what you need. As has previously been said - your vehicle is at present illegal as it has the chassis number from a 109 on it, when it is in fact an 88" - it is therefore illegal in the UK in it's current state. By stamping the chassis number from your log book onto the vehicle, you are then making it legal by UK law, so then you will have no problems with it in the Netherlands.

Your problem is just a number - change it and that's all you need to do, it's not illegal to do it, so there shouldn't be a problem.

Les.

The problem Justus is having is that the RDW (DVLA in Holland) has seen the vehicle and seen the Chassis number being wrong. If you change it now, All that will happen is that you are effectively ringing a car, and the RDW knows about it. It would bring you in a much more difficult (and illegal) situation. So you really should have checked (and 'rectified') the situation before you turned up at the RDW test. Involving the DVLA is completely pointless, as they will come up with the same answer: you cant change the VIN on a car. Even if you do, the RDW knows you have done it and they will turn round and say no.

Not sure what to suggest in your current situation, to be honest I think the only way is to forget the previous encounter, forget the chassis number and reg document and use another dutch registration and ID. Tax and test it, and drive it.

Daan

[Justus]

Hi I've decided to buy some stamps.

The stampes need to match the old ones.

These are 6.5 to 7 mm high.

This is an example how they look like.

Anybody any suggestions where I can get some?

Cheers,

Just.

[Les Henson]

Any engineering suppliers should be able to supply letter/number stamps. MachineMart/Screwfix/etc do them.

Les.