SVA Manual - and Construction & Use Manuals ??

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Anyone have a link to either the full 'SVA Manual' and / or the 'Construction & Use Regulations Manual'

Come over all cheapskate and that,

.....and fancy some bedtime reading to fix my insomnia

?? anyone

Nige

[Guest WALFY]

A friend in Kent has just purchased the SVA manual. Only cost about 40 quid

[Ryan]

Anyone have a link to either the full 'SVA Manual' and / or the 'Construction & Use Regulations Manual'

Come over all cheapskate and that,

.....and fancy some bedtime reading to fix my insomnia

?? anyone

Nige

I wasn't aware there was a Construction and Use manual per se. It is a regulation enacted (and amended time and time again) by parliament so there should be a downloadable version on the Office of Public Sector Information website/The Stationery Office. Failing that, if there is a specific area you are looking at, I can probably "obtain" the information from my copy of Butterworth's Police Law 8th Edition which should cover any C&U bits that the police would pick you up on.

Ryan

[FridgeFreezer]

Ryan,

Any chance you could dig out the police's official line on sticky out tyres, since people seem to claim the sky will fall if your tyres protrude from the arches?

[landmannnn]

Nige,

May have seen this :

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/publicatio...ublications.htm

[pugwash]

I have the March 2004 SVA manual in PDF if that's any help

PM me your email address and i'll send it to you- its reasonably big but should be ok by email

happy to let someone host it if they can point me in the right direction of a file hosting site!

[Ryan]

Ryan,

Any chance you could dig out the police's official line on sticky out tyres, since people seem to claim the sky will fall if your tyres protrude from the arches?

Pending correction from an actual officer of the law, as far as I know the bits the police will be looking at are Regulation 63 of the Construction and Use Regulations 1986 and Regulation 100(1).

Regulation 63 relates to the provision of wings on the vehicle. Apart from a few exceptions, all vehicles must be equipped with wings or similar fittings to catch, as far as practicable, mud or water thrown up by the wheels. I believe the key phrase here is "as far as practicable" which I hate because I feel it doesn't give any boundaries. However, providing your wings, or extensions of the wings (in the form of wheel arch spats or whatever they are called) reach the edge of the tyre, I would say you have done what is practicable in the circumstances. So JU, when you were at 7S last year, you could have fallen foul of this law. All Mr Policeman would have had to do was take a picture of your windows and the fact they were covered in carp and he would have all the evidence he needed.

Regulation 100(1) is the bit with regards to the general condition of a vehicle and whether it poses a danger to any person in or on the vehicle or on a road. The test for whether something is dangerous or not is a common sense test. This is the way a lot of legislation is judged e.g. with regards to theft, a person has to be "dishonest" in the way that he/she has appropriated property, but the law does not specify what is dishonest - it is assumed that the average person would know what the difference is between being honest and being dishonest. It is the same with this part of the C & U regulations. The example given in the text is regarding the absence of a radiator grill - there is not sufficient danger because the fan blades are not exposed. It would be different if the fan blades were in front of the radiator. Whenever you look at whether your vehicle is in a dangerous condition or not, you need to take yourself out of the equation (because you're biased) and ask "would the average person feel that this is in a dangerous condition." Would the average person think that should you bump into a pedestrian who walked out into the road, does the condition of you vehicle make it more dangerous? If your tyres are protruding from under the wing, are they likely to come in contact with someone and cause a danger to that person? Unfortunately, because there is nothing specific to say what is and what isn't dangerous, and unless there is precedent in a given situation, it is all down to perception by both individual police officers and the courts.

Sorry that was a bit long winded (parp!), but hope that helps.

[FridgeFreezer]

Good info Ryan - next question, what would an ossifer of the law be likely to actually do about an infringement of the rules? Popular theories include issuing a rectification notice, crushing the car, hanging, and marriage.

[will_warne]

I have the March 2004 SVA manual in PDF if that's any help

PM me your email address and i'll send it to you- its reasonably big but should be ok by email

happy to let someone host it if they can point me in the right direction of a file hosting site!

You beat me to it - I've got the same thing in pdf form. Its long (178 pages) but not that big in terms of computer size. It will go be email no problem at all. Might it even be worth hosting on the site for people to reference? Its an old draft and not up to date but it is a good starting point for people and is mostly correct.

[BogMonster]

All Mr Policeman would have had to do was take a picture of your windows and the fact they were covered in carp and he would have all the evidence he needed.

Don't think that would be correct - based on that you could put any vehicle with factory tyres off the road here after one trip out to the airport because you won't see out of anything except the windscreen even running 7.50s on standard rims

[FridgeFreezer]

You beat me to it - I've got the same thing in pdf form. Its long (178 pages) but not that big in terms of computer size. It will go be email no problem at all. Might it even be worth hosting on the site for people to reference? Its an old draft and not up to date but it is a good starting point for people and is mostly correct.

Will - I'm happy to host it, would you like an FTP login or do you want to e-mail the file to me?

[reads90]

Regulation 100(1) is the bit with regards to the general condition of a vehicle and whether it poses a danger to any person in or on the vehicle or on a road. The test for whether something is dangerous or not is a common sense test. This is the way a lot of legislation is judged e.g. with regards to theft, a person has to be "dishonest" in the way that he/she has appropriated property, but the law does not specify what is dishonest - it is assumed that the average person would know what the difference is between being honest and being dishonest. It is the same with this part of the C & U regulations. The example given in the text is regarding the absence of a radiator grill - there is not sufficient danger because the fan blades are not exposed. It would be different if the fan blades were in front of the radiator. Whenever you look at whether your vehicle is in a dangerous condition or not, you need to take yourself out of the equation (because you're biased) and ask "would the average person feel that this is in a dangerous condition." Would the average person think that should you bump into a pedestrian who walked out into the road, does the condition of you vehicle make it more dangerous? If your tyres are protruding from under the wing, are they likely to come in contact with someone and cause a danger to that person? Unfortunately, because there is nothing specific to say what is and what isn't dangerous, and unless there is precedent in a given situation, it is all down to perception by both individual police officers and the courts.

Sorry that was a bit long winded (parp!), but hope that helps.

Now this brings up another subject which worries me

As these trucks get more and more toyed and bits welded on here there and everywhere

And all of a sudden everyone is a bloody expert on welding. And it scares me that there are trucks with 36" tyres on , Tear ar*eing around the streets and competitions and all done by some idiot up to the early hours welding away in the back of there shed and not really know what they are doing . I know people i trust with welding and i know some who have done it who i would be really scared about being anywhere near there truck when moving . I have never welded anything on my trucks in the past because i can't and admit it, i can afford to go and buy a welder tomorrow but believe you leave it to the experts.

To give you an idea of what happens when it all goes wrong (bear with me on this , give a bit of back ground first) , With the accident my dad was killed a lorry landed on top of his Vehicle at 70 mph from the other side of the Motorway . It was a Articulated Truck loaded to the hilt with Steel. My dads truck was the 2' high under the lorry and the lorry was smashed to bits. But the police rebuilt the lorry and my dad Vehicle. They had a list of problems with a 6 months old VW van (dads Vehicle) and the lorry was rebuilt and every single part looked at . In the end the problem was found out to be a problem with the thread on one of the air connectors of the air suspension in the trailer. Now The truck was serviced at the intervals as set down by all the Vos and DVLA , But the police still throw the book at the company and we sued the hell out of them too and won . Now image if this was you in your landy mmmmm

Here in Aus alot of mods are allowed but each time you do a modification you have to get an engineer's report and a Modification plate . What this does it tell anyone who wants to know ( Police , insurance company ) that the cars has the mods and they are tested and legal Therefore saving you any problems in the future. I have seen cars with 6 of these plates under the bonnet from everything to engine change to axle change (portals) to try back

You need them here as the have department of transport cars running around that can pull you over and check your car and if it is no roadworthy they take it off you there and then. And have seen alot of them sat out side off road comps . But there again in Queensland there is no yearly MOT or anything like that .

But the idea of the modification plate i think is a good one , and at least you know where you are and your truck is 100% legal for the road

[jules]

Good info Ryan - next question, what would an ossifer of the law be likely to actually do about an infringement of the rules? Popular theories include issuing a rectification notice, crushing the car, hanging, and marriage.

I know of a racing 90 up north which was crushed by the plod it was my mates old car.

Big Mark Staply's Rapid Rover's 100" had his Tax exempt private plate removed and issued a Q (and told to be gratful it was not crushed)

[reads90]

I know of a racing 90 up north which was crushed by the plod it was my mates old car.

Big Mark Staply's Rapid Rover's 100" had his Tax exempt private plate removed and issued a Q (and told to be gratful it was not crushed)

Same with richy (and the police left him on his own sat on the side for the M27 while they took his landy away )

[plasticbadger]

Here's a question for you SVA boffins for you then (if this is the right place, I was gonna start a new thread on this) -

What happens when you buy an already 'Q' registered home-built vehicle and modify it further, even substaintaily? For example, buy an old 'Q' plate 88" V8 hybrid series and rebuild it with a new 100" chassis, plus different engine and axles?

[Corrode Finger]

Here's a question for you SVA boffins for you then (if this is the right place, I was gonna start a new thread on this) -

What happens when you buy an already 'Q' registered home-built vehicle and modify it further, even substaintaily? For example, buy an old 'Q' plate 88" V8 hybrid series and rebuild it with a new 100" chassis, plus different engine and axles?

As i understand that scenario........ technically you are 'ringing' the vehicle.

As it is on a new 100" chassis, that is now the basis of a new vehicle..... the chassis has ID, therefore it would be SVA and new Q plate.

[Ryan]

Good info Ryan - next question, what would an ossifer of the law be likely to actually do about an infringement of the rules? Popular theories include issuing a rectification notice, crushing the car, hanging, and marriage.

It all depends on the situation at hand - like I said before, it can be all down to perception. I'm not sure what is on the VDRS (Vehicle Defect Rectification Scheme) list nowadays. Usually the options would be (in order of severity) - kindly warning (yes it does happen more than you think), VDRS (IIRC 7 days to produce your docs if you haven't got them at the roadside, and 14 days to get the vehicle fixed and examined by a MOT tester), fixed penalty notice (which are likely to put at least 3 points on your licence for each offence), report for summons (after you failed to get it fixed), and prohibition notice. If your vehicle is prohibited, it usually means that the officer (who is specifically qualified for the process) believes that the defects are so bad that the vehicle should not move another inch until it is fixed. They may allow a variation which will allow you to take the vehicle away to be fixed, but this must be on the back of a flat bed taxi.

If your vehicle is prohibited, you are very likely to get a fixed penalty notice or be reported for offences.

Edited to add: If, when your vehicle is prohibited, you decide that it is not worth the cost to get it fixed, you may have the option to sign a waiver to relinquish your rights to the vehicle, but again this depends on the actual situation and may only be applicable if you are being dealt with for document offences as well.

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Have a look at the IVA consultancy documents HERE for an idea of where it is heading. All the details of protruberances, wheel-arches, light positions etc are given in detail. These may not be the current rules but they are coming so better to build to these than whatever is out there at the mo???

[missingsid]

My Tuppenanth.

When I spoke to the Police at a Traffic centre I asked to see a copy of the Construction and Use Act etc.

I was told that they have no idea about it but if I want to know if I can do something to look in hte past case file as they rely on pressidents set by cases they win or loose.

This serves 2 points:

1 it got rid of me as it was a bloody big book with no index for what I wanted.

2 they will only procecute stuff they can win.

Marc.

[Ryan]

My Tuppenanth.

When I spoke to the Police at a Traffic centre I asked to see a copy of the Construction and Use Act etc.

I was told that they have no idea about it but if I want to know if I can do something to look in hte past case file as they rely on pressidents set by cases they win or loose.

This serves 2 points:

1 it got rid of me as it was a bloody big book with no index for what I wanted.

2 they will only procecute stuff they can win.

Marc.

The trouble with looking at precedents is that they can be overturned by a judge. The police can make a decision on whether or not to report someone for an offence, but it is the CPS who make the decision on those reported whether or not to take the prosecution forward (using the public interest test, and the chance of successful prosecution test). Regarding the indexing of C & U Regs, it is indexed as per most legislation, which means very badly. You have to do a lot of digging to find the bit you want, ensuring you check all headings as the subject you are looking for may be covered under differing parts of the legislation/regulation.

[pat_pending]

Here's a question for you SVA boffins for you then (if this is the right place, I was gonna start a new thread on this) -

What happens when you buy an already 'Q' registered home-built vehicle and modify it further, even substaintaily? For example, buy an old 'Q' plate 88" V8 hybrid series and rebuild it with a new 100" chassis, plus different engine and axles?

If you alter a vehicle from it's PRESENT form to the point that an SVA would be required, then it wouldn't matter what reg was on it, or if it had previously been SVAed once, or a dozen times already, it would need another SVA and Q plate.

[steve_d]

In my reading of the new IVA, which will shortly replace SVA, I have found some areas which are more stringent but in the main it is better written and clearer in the detail requirements.

SVA test tomorrow on the Dakar.

Steve

[will_warne]

Will - I'm happy to host it, would you like an FTP login or do you want to e-mail the file to me?

Will do