Warn 8274 brake assembly

[mickeyw]

Just been outside struggling to get the brake assembly off of the 8274.

I have read the 8274 rebuild article on Pirate 4x4 which suggests the brake disc doesn't always come off easily.

The circlip came off no problem and have set a puller up to pull behind the ratchet wheel.

Am I going about this the correct way? Would I be better off trying to pull the whole assembly off in one go? I don't want to put to much pressure on this part and risk breaking it through ignorance.

I have been soaking the end of the shaft liberally for the last week, but so far there's no sign of movement.

Any advice and tips would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Michael

[will_warne]

Michael, normally the brake is only too happy to fly apart on an 8274 . It is sprung loaded so be careful when it does go as bits are likely to go everywhere.

First off I'd soak it in WD-40 and have a go at tapping the outer plate with a hammer to try and break any corrosion that may be holding it on. My only other suggestion is to remove the brake shaft from the winch itself as this may make it easier to persuade the brake assembly off as it will allow you to hold the brake assembly in a vice and apply a hammer to either end of the mainshaft to attempt to loosen it. Do this by taking off the top housing and pulling up the mainshaft securing plate - the mainshaft assembly will the pull out through the side of the bottom housing.

[white90]

I'd get the puller behind the rear most brake part and keep winding the puller, it is only corrosion holding it on.

Unlike Will suggests I would advise against hammering the Mainshaft

[gsr341]

im with white 90 , yove got the right idea may just need bigger pullers to grip on the rear disc ,

if its still tight pop it out of the caseing like will explaned (with out use of a hammer ) and place in a press if you have accses to one , sure you must be matey with some one who does or knows some one that may have accses to one

[will_warne]

Just because I suggested using a hammer does not mean you beat the cr@p out of it with the biggest lump hammer you can find! A slight shock load is the best way of breaking the corrosion. Although it's better, as I said, to tap the brake plate first to reduce the chance of damaging the shaft.

As White90 and gsr341 said a bigger puller that would pull against the inner brake plate as opposed to the pawl wold be better.

[white90]

The shaft is hardened, hitting it is a BAD idea

[Chunky]

Use a pair of mole grips to clamp the brake assembly together, BEFORE you attack it with a hammer or pullers ................that way when it comes off in a hurry it will at least stay together and prevent you having to spend 20 minutes searching on the floor for all the bits, as they will end up everywhere

[will_warne]

Use a pair of mole grips to clamp the brake assembly together, BEFORE you attack it with a hammer or pullers ................that way when it comes off in a hurry it will at least stay together and prevent you having to spend 20 minutes searching on the floor for all the bits, as they will end up everywhere

If its so corroded it doesn't fly apparat then I suspect he'll need new bits.

[mickeyw]

Use a pair of mole grips to clamp the brake assembly together, BEFORE you attack it with a hammer or pullers ................that way when it comes off in a hurry it will at least stay together and prevent you having to spend 20 minutes searching on the floor for all the bits, as they will end up everywhere

Guys,

Thanks for all the words of advice so far. I spent last night making a puller adapter to get behind both brake plates. Tonight I hope to have a chance to try it out. Only managing about an hour a night to play at the moment

I will certainly try Chunky's suggestion about the Mole grips, my garage playroom has so much cr4p everywhere I'll never find the bits if they fly off in all directions.

Definitely against the hammer wacking idea, the casing is far too flimsy to take that kind of abuse.

The inner brake disc is free to slide on the shaft but the outer is sure stuck on well. I have polished up the exposed section to help when it does start to move

I looked at getting the entire shaft out as Will Warne suggested. I took the top cover off and withdrew the plate that keeps the drum in place and made the unit a bit lighter. However I can't see an easy way to remove the shaft. The outer bearing looks/feels like it is a press fit in the casing, I assume the little bearing the other end is a needle cup, that looks well rusted in place too. I guess it would need pushing from the inner (small) bearing end???

In case anyone is wondering why I am removing the brake assembly it's because the friction pad remains have mostly fallen out! Do all ages of this winch take the same brake friction pads? This unit is a very early one. I do have the serial number, but not to hand right now.

Hoping to post pictures of it in pieces tomorrow, not broken ones.

Thanks

Michael

[white90]

Brake pads all the Same except Gigglepin/Gwynn Lewis sell wider ones,

The shaft sits in the needle roller bearing

once the plate securing the drum is removed the only thing holding the shaft in is the bronze push fit bearing on the shaft.

your puller will do the job.

on reassembly it is important when refitting the drum the securing plate goes into the correct groove on the drum itself

this is very easy to get wrong

This shows the components on the shaft:

http://www.gigglepin4x4.net/8274/pdf/8274-Main-Shaft-Kit.pdf

[will_warne]

As Tony said the mainshaft will normally need a little persuasion to come out - it won't just fall out. I've just been stripping my 8274-50 to cannibalise for parts for a new winch - I held the lower housing in the vice (just to stop it moving and definitely don't use too much force as you will damage the case) and gave the brake a tug by hand and it popped out - you shouldn't have to use excessive force.

[mickeyw]

White90, thanks for the excellent link to Gigglepin page, a great assembly guide, if only mine came apart this easily. I get the impression that the main shaft and the bronze bush normally slide out with ease! Not on mine it don't

Anyway, here's my latest attempt at pulling the brake assembly off.

I have wound the puller (5 tonne supposedly) up as tight as a tight thing and as you can see my home made bit has changed shape and the discs haven't budged at all.

There are no obvious signs of damage to the shaft end (other than rust), no signs of weld either. Now looking for a secret hidden grub screw that some joker may have added in the past! GRRRR

[white90]

Wind the puller up tight and leave it in a safe place IE on the floor

spray some wd40 on it and leave it a while to brew

[roguevogue]

Mine was tight like yours, I took the shaft out of the gearbox, it comes out with the bearing and oil seal on it, and put it under a press, the brake was so stuck it broke to back brake disc! Be warned.

[GBMUD]

Often pullers work well if you apply tension and then strike the stuck parts with a hammer. Obviously you need to 'shock' them rather than beating the crrp out of them but it is starting to look as if you have little to loose. The effect of hitting them carefully is to distort them and help break the 'stuckness'.

Chris

[ciderman]

Abosolutly Chris , It always helps to shock things loose with a good square blow with a hammer , A copper /hide hammer is an ideal tool for the job ,espesialy on case hardened items .

[mickeyw]

Woohoo!

Finally got it apart, as you can see v v v v rusty, although it seems mostly surface rust. Hopefully most parts will clean up OK.

The successful method entailed holding the whole assembly by the puller rods and giving repeated blows to the end of the shaft with a copper mallet. Once movement started it was possible to use the puller to complete removal. Fortunately nothing went flying across the floor.

Also visible is the lack of brake pad material, a new set will be on order soon. Are the standard pads up to challenge abuse, or is it necessary to fit the upgrade available from Gigglepin?

Tomorrow's job is top get the main shaft out of the casing and clean up its diameter. The shaft also seems to be well stuck in. The inside of the gearbox contained something resembling dark treacle, and not much of it, could have been EP140 at one time!

Thanks to everyone for their encouragement.

Michael

[ciderman]

Nice one , Michael , Give gigglepin a shout and get a brake service kit with the bigger friction pads , When reassembling give the pads a light greasing (just to preserve them and stop them sticking to the discs . Clean out the circlip groove paying attention to the squareness of the outer edge , ALWAYS fit a new circlip ,Looks like you have an early model there with the cooling fins on the discs so you will need the larger circlip from the kit .(might be woth stating that when you order )

[white90]

There should be 21 bearings in there the service kit contains a Drum seal/main shaft seal/bearings.

The next item on the main shaft is almost certainly stuck to the cam gear inside, plenty of penetrating fluid and some more perseverance will see it in bits.

The price of standard pads is higher than the bigger ones from Jim/Gwynn so well worth doing.

the state of the main shaft may also be worth considering asking for a replacement in the wanted section, people who have upgraded will have a spare old one, I sold my one a while back or would have offered you it.

[ciderman]

Funny you should say that Tony , I was having a garage clear out last week and found 4 shafts , 3 late ones and 1 early one .

So if anyone needs one ............

The kit Tony described is the lower kit , (Drum kit) the one you will need if not both is the brake kit , 21 bearings , 2 circlips , brake shaft bush and seal ,friction pads ,keyways ,spring and collar,shims and shaft O ring .

[white90]

The keyways needed a bit of sanding to fit in mine this week.

The kit Jim sent me was probably a bitsa to rebuild the winch after the prob I had.

Micheal I suggest you make Jase an offer on a replacement shaft.

[mickeyw]

I managed to get the main shaft out today and most of the parts cleaned up.

Serial number is 319493, so as ciderman mentioned this is an early model.

Fortunately most bits cleaned up fairly well. The big gears all look almost like new, however the shaft looks like it has spent its life in the sea, but only the gear toothed section!

The shaft teeth don't look like they've seen much action since the corrosion, and the mating gear teeth show no signs of damage. So a replacement shaft would be a good idea me thinks. Ciderman, would on of your garage finds suit this age winch, and what sort of £ would you be looking for?

The brake discs have shallow grooves worn in them by the rusty balls.

The inner cam gear looks to have been grinding against its neighbour as well as the end face being quite pitted. Is the length of this part critical? I am thinking of cleaning the end face on a surface grinder just enough to remove the scoring, 0.1mm should be enough. I think I would have to take off too much to remove the pitting.

As well as the brake pads and seals etc I am also going to need one #10-24 x 3/8" long screw that secures the freespool cover plate. One was broken off, but I managed to drill down its middle, and for once an easy out actually worked as intended! Are these screws available as a spare or does someone have any surplus kicking about?

More cleaning and titivating tomorrow.

Michael

[ciderman]

Michael , Can you let me know the diameter of the outermost of the shaft (Circlip end )

I have an early shaft but the inner cam is part of the shaft .

I will post some pics when I get back from the Chinky .

[ciderman]

Ok as you may see this shaft is only in slightly better condition than yours,

Measures about 1 1/16" on the outermost

And you may see from the pics that its a one piece shaft incoroperating the inner cam , The winch it came from is circa 1985

[mickeyw]

Michael , Can you let me know the diameter of the outermost of the shaft (Circlip end )

I have an early shaft but the inner cam is part of the shaft .

I will post some pics when I get back from the Chinky .

Shaft at the circlip end measures Ø26.90, bore of gear is Ø27.00 (this is same as 1 1/16")

Shaft and gears look like this

How many different types are there?

I think my bearing surfaces look better than the shaft you have pictured. I'm dare say what I have will give a good deal more service yet, the whole assembly looks pretty robust.