Hybrid_From_Hell Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Thought this would be useful. Team Effort, Hosting courtesy of Mr Fridge giving me a slice of his www and Mr Bish for the SVA Manual Here are 2 Files : The 1st is the FULL SVA Manual, from 2004, SVA 2004 PDF The 2nd is the new proposed and soon to be replacement for SVA the IVA, here is the full Draft Manual. IVA Draft Manual Both these files are PDF and VERY Large - SVA at 19 MB and the IVA 7.5 MB actual IVA info http://www.dvtani.gov.uk/vehicletesting/ecwvta.asp Enjoy Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Er, you're welcome Nige, but I got it from that bloke who used to have a truck, then lent it to another bloke for a number of months, got it back again and still hasn't driven it....... So you should give hime the credit really....! Take a bow Lesmond... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthy boy Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Nige Thanks for doing this (same to everyone else involved). IVA is helpful. Working away all this week so some reading for those lonely hotel nights! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Very good, thanks everyone. I downloaded it, printed it off (208 pages), and have been reading it all afternoon. I'm surprised how easy it is to follow and understand. It's almost like a 'how to' book. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Your all welcome Errr.......What...... I've a Truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 hi, Just gone through it pretty well (I think) and can not for the life of me find any reference to hydraulic steering being banned, or even the need for a "mechanical link" (which actually Hydraulic "is" anyway, as hydraulics are mechanics) or "metal link or anything else! just self centre would cause problems, If anyone has noticed the part I have missed then would they please point me in the right direction. Would hate to get it wrong. Lara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoggyN Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 hi,Just gone through it pretty well (I think) and can not for the life of me find any reference to hydraulic steering being banned, or even the need for a "mechanical link" (which actually Hydraulic "is" anyway, as hydraulics are mechanics) or "metal link or anything else! just self centre would cause problems, If anyone has noticed the part I have missed then would they please point me in the right direction. Would hate to get it wrong. Lara. Apologies for reviving an old thread but I think with basic hydraulic steering a vehicle is limited to 20mph. At least that that is the case with agicultural tractors etc. To exceed that speed the steering must have a seconday back up feature - presumably a solid mechanical link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Apologies for reviving an old thread but I think with basic hydraulic steering a vehicle is limited to 20mph. At least that that is the case with agicultural tractors etc. To exceed that speed the steering must have a seconday back up feature - presumably a solid mechanical link. Noggy, where does it actually say this (manual, statute etc) I've been unable to find anything. I was under the impression most of the speed limits for agricultural vehicles were down to the speed ratings of the tyres and lack of suspension. Just out of interest I've had a look at the JCB Fastrac brochure which does mention this. However, it again uses the word mechanical to define the requirement and I really want to see how this is defined and what the the requirements for a secondary backup system. At the end of the day we only have a handbrake as a mechanical backup for car brakes and that's going to be less than useless if you are doing any more than walking pace when the brakes fail! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Thanks Nige, That'll be really useful building my trayback. Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Can't say I've read either the SVA or the IVS documents but the day job means I have to have a passing knowledge of automotive regulations. To shed some light on hydraulic steering systems: Tractors are defined as agricultural vehicles in the "Road Vehicle (Authorisation of Special Types) (General) Order 2003" - A classic bit of UK legislation that lets me drive big green things down the Queen's highway. This implements the speed restrictions specified in EU directives governing agricultural equipment which are limited to 20mph unless they're really wide in which case it's 12mph. Read the legislation here if you're having trouble sleeping! Most motor vehicles steering systems are governed by EU directive 70/311/EEC as amended, look here if you really want to punish yourself. It's this directive that mandates a mechanical link in the steering system (although the motor industry is beginning to mutter about using redundant electronic links for steering and braking systems). Tractors have their own directive 75/321/EEC which I haven't looked at or have a link for but it apparently allows hydraulic steering systems subject to a 40kph speed restriction and of course the restrictions on use (both intended AND actual, so no loopholes for crazy modded Land Rovers). If anyone's still reading this, seriously, its Christmas, pick up the phone and talk to someone who still loves you, please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoggyN Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Noggy, where does it actually say this (manual, statute etc) I've been unable to find anything. We have a copy of the UK Road Vehicle Construction & Use regulations at work which I may be able to get my hands on if further confirmation is needed but I think Tom A's post makes it clear enough and I suspect the EU regs are the most up-to-date. Sorry if it's not what you wanted to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Right, its too late and too boring to look into this at the moment. Tom, you may have a point however 1) I'm a lawyer so I get a perverse sort of enjoyment out of this sort of thing (I am beyond help) 2) I don't like 'maybe' answers. My EU law is a little rusty however a directive does require member state implementation so there will be something, somewhere in the UK legislation. Otherwise there are some possible loopholes that could be explored (although this could be highly tricky and really wouldn't be worth the hassle). I've got some homework.... Hoggy, no it isn't particularly bad news - both hydro and hydro assist will do the job as far as I'm concerned. Full hydro is slightly simpler so is marginally preferable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I'm a lawyer Have you recently moved to the US Will?? tut tut! ;) ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 OK have found something specific at last!!!!!! Here 2.2.2 Steering gear 2.2.2.1 It must be possible to steer the vehicle even in the event of total or partial failure of the hydraulic, pneumatic or electrical components of the steering gear. There is definitely and 100% no direct reference in any of it that states "you must have a mechanical link" however, I think that the above regulation has been "translated" by people (rightly or wrongly) to mean such, I honestly think that is could be "got round" but it does read that "if it has sole hydraulics as its workings, then it will need another type of backup" Not necessarily metal or anything else, just "Not Hydraulic" Must think Lara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoggyN Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Not necessarily metal or anything else, just "Not Hydraulic" Nor pneumatic or electrical either. Doesn't leave an awful lot left apart from metal and magic! Or two bits of string! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 You have a VERY small imagination! Lara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I wonder if you could fit rod or cable operated fiddle brakes and claim they were your emergence steering system fi the hydro steer fails! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoggyN Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 You have a VERY small imagination! Oh no I haven't! How about this, or even better, this ? You might have to make it retractable so it doesn't get in the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I think the hardest part with any system is trying to persuade the examiner that it fits within the rules and guidelines! No reason why a piece of string could not be made to work but I can't imagine the tester accepting it! To be honest it would be easier just to follow the same route as Tim B and fit a ram to assist the standard steering unless you "must" have something different! At least we seem to have cleared up the misinformation stuff. The rules don't specifically outlaw Hydro steering but they do make it VERY hard to do as a stand alone system! Personally I would just fit a tiny little Rack and Pinion from a race car as a secondary, just cos it's so easy to do! Lara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOA 93 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Now that the there is bit more evidence suggesting a back up system, I think Will's idea of a manual box with a valve seems to get rid of the qestionable LR PAS box issue. Rakeway already make such a valve for the comp safari boys and it has LR splines on to boot. They have a ram asist set up that is designed to work with it as well. Andy Apologies, I have my Threads confused, this should of been in the ram assist thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I think the hardest part with any system is trying to persuade the examiner that it fits within the rules and guidelines! No reason why a piece of string could not be made to work but I can't imagine the tester accepting it! To be honest it would be easier just to follow the same route as Tim B and fit a ram to assist the standard steering unless you "must" have something different! At least we seem to have cleared up the misinformation stuff. The rules don't specifically outlaw Hydro steering but they do make it VERY hard to do as a stand alone system! Personally I would just fit a tiny little Rack and Pinion from a race car as a secondary, just cos it's so easy to do! Lara. Lara, convincing the inspector is the easy part - they have to give you a reason for the failure. Some of the stories of impromptu modifications the kit car guys do are superb (things like removing windscreens from hard top vehicles). Well done for finding the section, though. I just couldn't face it last night! As you say, the sort of system Tim has is rather good and not much more complicated than full hydro - in reality it is full hydro if you remove the drag link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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