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TD5 loss of power -help needed!


steve c

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I'm running out of fingers and toes to count the problems I have had with my TD5 Defender. Last week I changed the fuel filter (have rechecked seals etc) and air filter- admittedly I did forget to plug back the electrical sensor on the air intake for 3 days.

Since then,(coincidence or not) I have experienced loss of power (the landy not me). When I start her up, I can hear a difference in tick-over noise, when driving the gear stick vibrates more, I have even had to put her in low ratio when going up some steep little hills, loss of power more noticeable in higher gears. Has anybody got any ideas?

I have checked oil levels, filter seals etc, Im scratching my head and dont really want to pay landrover to plug her in and charge me a fortune. I read in my workshop manual that if the sensor fails, such conditions could be seen, is this possible.

Any advice, suggestions appreciated

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Bit of a shot in the dark this one, until someone who knows comes along :rolleyes:

Have you tried taking the battery off for 30 mins or so to let the ecu reset. From what you say the ecu has taken default values when you didn't reconnect the sensor wire and has probably gone to limp home mode.

Now you have put the wire back it may be worth trying a battery off for a bit. Be careful with the immobiliser though i.e make sure the landy is unlocked(not immobilised) before removing battery lead.

Pete

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I agree with Boggy. If you put it on a pooter you would most likely find that one of the injectors is not firing properly. Change the injector harness as that is the cheapest thing. If the problem does not go away you should change the injector washers which is cheap in materials and expensive to do if you do not do it yourself, although it is quite easy. And only then should you start looking at expensive stuff like injectors themselves. But don't go down that route without a computer check first otherwise you will be wasting your money.

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Do you think I should do this before going to Landrover for the diagnostic? Where exactly is the injector harness? are we talking about an electrical part? (sorry to be stupid) like an electrical harness.

If this is the case it has nothing to do with the recent service I carried out. I have also noticed (i think) overheating, does this fit in with your theory

Thanks for the help

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No it should not cause overheating :unsure:

The harness is under the rocker cover. Take off the plastic soundproofing cover on top of the engine and you will see a big round plug going up into the cylinder head in the front RH corner of the engine. The injector harness runs from this to each injector, and actuates the injector solenoid when the ECU tells it to fire. The insulation breaks down with oil and heat and time, and doesn't work properly. To change the harness all you need is a socket to take the soundproofing off (13mm I think) and a socket to take off the dozen or so rocker cover bolts (either 8 or 10, can't remember) and then you just unplug the harness where it goes into the head, unplug 5 injector plugs, pull out harness, fit new one, click all the connectors on to each injector and refit the rocker cover - the only bit that usually causes swearing is the rocker cover gasket around the back of the cover as it is a stupid shape.

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Hrmm...

Air in the fuel will cause similar problems.... did you make sure you remove the old seals from the fuel filter housing before you fitted the new filter? - I had a similar problem whereby a customer had changed the fuel filter, but the rubber seal from the old filter had stayed attached to the filter housing - and not come away with the old filter.

Also - was it a genuine or none genuine filter?? You do sometimes get faulty filters!!!

How noisy is your fuel pump - i.e. when you turn the ignition on, is it quite loud?

A failed (or failing) fuel pump will cause the lack of power. Getting it to bleed the system after you changed the filter may have finished it off.

Injector harness.... (do both the following with the ignition off) remove the plastic engine cover (13mm spanner needed) and at the front (drivers side) corner of the head - on the underside - behind the fan - you will see a black plastic plug... unlclip this and see if there is any oil present in the plug. Also, lift out the drivers seat base, and unplug the red plug from the ECU - see if any oil is present in the plug or the ECU side of the plug.

A failed air flow meter will cause lack of power - ideally you need diagnostic equipment to check this, although you can do it with a multimeter.

Ian

(edited to say Mr BogMonster posted some of the info at the same time!)

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Nice one for the replies chaps

i double checked fuel filter, no leaks, old seals removd, no probs there

the fuel pump is and has been very noisy for some time, havent noticed any recent change but it makes enough noise for people to always ask me what that strange noise is! hmmmm

the fuel filter came from paddocks and is a Britpart

I will check out the injector harness today, does the rocker cover seal need replacing once I have taken it off?

How do I check maf sensor with a multi-meter?

Big thanks for your time

Steve

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I would budget for a new fuel pump sooner rather than later then, Td5 fuel pumps are a bit like married life, there's usually a significant increase in the noise level shortly before it all goes very quiet indeed :)

Rocker cover seal - only if it leaks!

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Rocker cover seal - only if it leaks!

Yes, using the old one which has been heated into the correct shape is much easier than trying to fit a new one properly. The whole rocker cover is another bit of LR 'tea lady' design. A ten-year old could have done better.

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You were right guys!

pulled out ECM side plug (red one) lots of oil inside!! So that means that I need to replace the injector wiring harness? Is it just that or will there likely be other things wrong as a result?

I'm not going to bother taking off rocker cover now if I have alreadt found the problem, cos I need Landy for work until I can get the parts sent out (Im in France)

I cant make things worse by driving it for a few more days can i?

Do you think the injectors will be ok, is it a common problem?

Thanks a million to everyone who has helped me get to the bottom of this problem, these forums are invaluable

Happy driving (and tinkering)

Steve

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You were right guys!

pulled out ECM side plug (red one) lots of oil inside!! So that means that I need to replace the injector wiring harness? Is it just that or will there likely be other things wrong as a result?

I'm not going to bother taking off rocker cover now if I have alreadt found the problem, cos I need Landy for work until I can get the parts sent out (Im in France)

I cant make things worse by driving it for a few more days can i?

Do you think the injectors will be ok, is it a common problem?

Thanks a million to everyone who has helped me get to the bottom of this problem, these forums are invaluable

Happy driving (and tinkering)

Steve

So you removed the red plug from the ECU under the drivers seat and it was full of oil?

If thats the case then you will need to change the injector harness as the seal on the plug has gone. Your local LR Dealer will also tell you that the whole engine loom will need replacing but this is usualy rubish.

Once you have changed your injector loom, clean out the ECU end of the harnes with some contact cleaner. Put a whole load in and keep spraying until it runs clean and the oil has gone. Check it every few days and repeat if needed. Soon the oil will stop comming and you may just be lucky and not have to change the loom.

This happened with my 2001 TD5. Changing the injector harness is not a hard job. Took me around 20 mins to do the whole lot and it was the first time I had taken the top off!

Matt

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Also wash out the engine end with contact cleaner too (where the plug goes into the head) as well as the red ECU plug.

I've never seen one yet which needed the whole loom changing, though I am aware there are a handful of cases (a couple have been mentioned on here). As the new loom is about £600 or something stupid, I wouldn't bother doing that just yet :)

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So just to get this right, its only the harness inside the engine rocker that needs replacing? The plug / wires etc that join the ecm just need cleaning? I just phoned my local landrover centre in France, they wanted 200E for parts and labour!!!! Someone said it was 40squid for parts which is about right, then 20mins work, they said it was 2 hours work!

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What intercooler are you running, Standard I am unaware of problems, But I and others have had issues with the various upgraded versions with welded tank, The intercooler splits along the welds on the tank and all of a sudden your running just a diesel and all ECU mapping is completely wrong. Tends to stall easily seriously lacks power, not had any issues so far with starting, I have just recently gone back to the original because my Ally sports intercooler had split for the 4th time in 5 years.

Have a good look round the intercooler and hoses for leaks usually obvious from oil patch in the area (the oil breahter is fed into the air intake before the turbo).

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Brilliant, just bought it 76E, bit pricey but need vehicle straight away and cant wait for postage from uk. Just to check I understand (I'm getting there!) its the oil leaking into the harness and making its way to the ECM, which gives a bad/faulty signal which affects the performance? so its just electrical/electronic nonsense rather than actual mechanical problem? Why o why do Landys have to have all this electronic rubbish going on, it doesnt seem to be user friendly and takes away the hands on aspect of having a Landrover, better stop before I start ranting!

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Brilliant, just bought it 76E, bit pricey but need vehicle straight away and cant wait for postage from uk. Just to check I understand (I'm getting there!) its the oil leaking into the harness and making its way to the ECM, which gives a bad/faulty signal which affects the performance? so its just electrical/electronic nonsense rather than actual mechanical problem? Why o why do Landys have to have all this electronic rubbish going on, it doesnt seem to be user friendly and takes away the hands on aspect of having a Landrover, better stop before I start ranting!

That is about right. Mine went at Christmas, along with the noisy fuel pump. When I changed the injector loom, I followed advice from Jim Attril and a few others on here and made a point of destroying the seal where the main loom plugs into the injector loom. This is so that if, in future, the same failure occurs and oil enters the injector harness, it leaks out of the connection in preference to flowing all the way back through the main loom to the ECU and causing trouble there.

As to why they have electronics, it is about meeting tighter and tighter EU emissions regulations - and actually, they get quieter, more powerful and more economical too.

Chris

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I now have 3 stuffed injector harnesses lying around at home. When my wife is not around I am going to put them in the dishwasher :) And after that I will try them on engines to see what happens. Well, it's worth a try, don't you think? I know some folks have had success with soldering all the wires to stop the oil wicking up them. As they are worth nothing I have nothing to lose.

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