najw Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Having undergone a consultation process with all involved we have decided the following... 1: Helmets will NOT be compulsory in 2009. However we would like to see all competitors taking an element of responsibilty for their own well being and feel that helmets are advisable particularly for co-drivers for whom the risk of head injury appears to be higher than that of drivers. Further we believe that issues regarding communication are more easily resolved by the use of helmets. 2: No vehicles will need to be road-taxed or MOT'd. REASON: The issues surrounding Construction and Use are becoming more prevalent and by removing the need for compliance the liability on the organisers to ensure legal compliance are removed. 3: Winch sails - we have still not come to a conclusion on this issue. It would appear that the current regulations regarding winch sails and use with synthetic line is causing more problems than it resolves, however we plan to undertake some controlled testing before the formal approval of next year's regulations to try and get some conclusive answers to the questions which still remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taff Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Neil, With the change that you are planning to carry out to class standards in regards to MOT & TAX, how will class 2 & 3 now be determined? as you are currently stating the following: Class 2: Modified. Vehicles must be taxed for road use and may be equipped with one or more of the following: Multiple winches, Front and/or rear diff locks Class 3: Limited Modifications. Vehicles must be taxed for road use and may be equipped with one winch. Traction aids may only be used if original factory fitted equipment Taff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Sorry Taff, but i may be missing something here, but looks pretty clear to me If you have ONE winch, and no other retro fitted traction aids,, you are in Class 3 If you have more than one winch and retro fitted aids then Class 2 Think its a good call Neil,, Could save you and AWDC a fair bit of grief !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Butler Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 So class one would be for hyro steer and such like...? no? Hooray! good move I recon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saley Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Neil, Am i right in thinking that there will only be 2 classes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 Well spotted TJ101 No Saley - there will still be 3 classes - Class 1 - Unlimited Modifications remains unchanged (4 wheel steer or no mechanical link to the front wheels) I forgot to mention the other reason for the change is to save people a significant sum of money, Tax, Testing and Insuring their vehicles when they may not need to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudcred Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Hi, will Traybacks be in class 2 or class 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 There are no regulations with regards bodywork, tyre size, axle type etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taff Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Evening all, I think my question was mis-understood. What I am trying to say is, the idea of not having to MOT & TAX the vehicle is a good idea & I fully support, because as stated it is a large amount of money that you have to pay out every year to justify your vehicles class. If I remember correctly from last year to this years MOT I think my vehicle had only covered around 150 miles as it is only a toy for playing with and not used on the road (other than going to and from the MOT station). But the question is (and I maybe wrong here), currently class 2 & 3 are like RTV class in trials? Therefore with the change to the rules we are going to be a similar classing to Open class with the removal of the MOT & TAX? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robhybrid Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 devils advocate hypothetically could I build a severely modified buggy loosley based on a toyota landcruiser and fit one winch run huge tractor tyres and still enter in class 3? will scruitineering be more strict next year to make sure the veicle is in a safe compatition/road worthy condition? I havent the time or money to build a monster and intend on co-driving nex year but would like to see a level playing field especialy in a class where there is a higher probability of newcomers entering. I wouldnt like to see awdc being a big boys all toys only club that says if you cant take the heat stay out of the kitchen. Othe other hand I would like to think that people aspire to be a champion of a awdc series and consider it to be a worthwhile title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 run huge tractor tyres No - tractor tyres are not allowed in any class :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robhybrid Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 spoil sport I have recently found a scrap Belarus tractor front axle and liked the idea of running it with 48" high tractor tyres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Butler Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I really think it is a step in the right direction... hopefully it will get people being more creative with their modifications and step the whole game up a notch in every class... It's an off-road event... so why do we need MOt's and tax?... It's just another unnecessary expense every year for no good reason... Carwyn (Taff), I though you were selling your motor and moving to the US or somewhere for work?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saley Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Neil, Could you explain the classes fully, if you run a modified car with MOT&TAX this year you are in class2, the same modified car without MOT&TAX this year would be in class 1, what is going to be class1,class2,class3,or has this not been decided yet John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy-T Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Hi All, This is an interesting thread and applies to private land only. As the Tay Forest Challenge uses Forest Enterprise land & tracks all vehicles must be road legal as these publically accessable tracks are considered highway and are subject to all road traffic regulations. This became a clear issue some years ago when a serious accident occured within the Forest Enterprise land, involving a suzuki rolling down a steep slope resulting in a broken neck. The police were involved as they must be in every instance when an injury occurs requiring hospitalisation. The vehicle was impounded, inspected and released following minute examination by the Police Traffic unit. So, I suppose the point I am trying to make is that it really is dependant on the land you use as to whether vehicles must be road legal & not just the organisers point of view. Only adding a little information to this interesting debate. Andy Thomlinson. Chairman SWCC, Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taff Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Rob Butler, yes I do agree with your comments that it is a good move & will help in progressing the sport. In regards to the issue of the truck for sale & moving away. The truck is for sale verbally, will be placed on internet soon. With the move it has been postponed until next year, therefore I was just asking to see about maybe doing a couple of round next year maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Butler Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I don't think any of the sites used by the AWDC for challenges have any BOAT's in or on them... there is none I can think of?... but yes I fully understand what you are saying Andy... obviously it will be something that would have to be taken in to consideration by the event organisers.... Excellent, might see you at some events next year then Carwyn... Neil, so next year with there being no MOT's... does that mean I am ok to put hydro suspension on my class three motor over crimbo?... B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted October 2, 2008 Author Share Posted October 2, 2008 OK, I don't see why the removal of one clause has stimulated so many queries so to clarify the clarification, classes will be as follows CLASSES Class 1: Unlimited Modifications. Vehicles do not need to be taxed for road use and may be equipped with any combination of winch AND diff locks. A mechanical link IS NOT required between the steering wheel and the steered wheels. Class 2: Modified. Vehicles do not need to be taxed for road use and may be equipped with any combination of winch AND diff locks. A mechanical link IS required between the steering wheel and the steered wheels. 4 Wheel Steer is not permitted. Class 3: Limited Modifications. Vehicles do not need to be taxed for road use and may be equipped with one winch. Traction aids may only be used if original factory fitted equipment. A mechanical link IS required between the steering wheel and the steered wheels. 4 Wheel Steer is not permitted. Andy-T - thanks for your input, you are absolutely correct in that any event which uses the public highway requires all vehicles to be 100% compliant with Road Traffic Regulations. So if you are planning to compete in the Tay or similar events your vehicles must comply with that organisers regulations. All AWDC Howlin' Wolf events take place wholly on private land so there is no requirement to comply with RTA requirements or C&U. I would expect all event organisers to take into account legal requirements when they issue their regulations and invite entries to their events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 All AWDC Howlin' Wolf events take place wholly on private land so there is no requirement to comply with RTA requirements or C&U. I would expect all event organisers to take into account legal requirements when they issue their regulations and invite entries to their events. There are a couple of BOATs at Walters Arena IIRC. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robhybrid Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 There are a couple of BOATs at Walters Arena IIRC.Chris I think I heard a rumor that an alternative site is being looked into Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robhybrid Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 OK, I don't see why the removal of one clause has stimulated so many queries so to clarify the clarification That "one clause" has been taken by some to be the major difference between calss 2/3 and class 1 I guess that I am not alone in posibly falsely assuming that using the fact that the vehicle had to be road legal was a guide as to the limit of modifications to classes 2 and 3 maybe it has a false connection with other peoples rules of rtv+1 rtv+<1 or non rtv+unlimited. Some times the winner is the one who makes the best interpretation of the rules looks like I need to dig out the rule book that was issued to me and spend some more time reading, Could I have a rule book in large font with more pretty pictures and less print Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Hi, I am quite amazed you are waving the MOT requirement as well. Every event I have entered so far did require MOT for insurance purposes. Does the AWDC have sufficient scrutineering into place to make up for this requirement? I mean you still want a car to have brakes, steering and tyres which are of some standard I would have thought? Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Hi, I am quite amazed you are waving the MOT requirement as well. Every event I have entered so far did require MOT for insurance purposes. Does the AWDC have sufficient scrutineering into place to make up for this requirement? I mean you still want a car to have brakes, steering and tyres which are of some standard I would have thought?Daan As would the driver of said vehicle I would imagine :P . Sort of self regulating don't you suppose? If not then a great example of Darwinism :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobbymogs Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 im not sure if you have ever entered a AWDC event but the scrutineering is very good in fact some times a little to strict but they are looking after you and your Co Driver and tbh i wouldnt personally enter a event with dodgy brakes or steering or anything else would you ? ? Nobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Butler Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I have been to events before where the scruteneers have checked brakes and hand brakes... but yes, It would be rather dumb to try any compete with no brakes... Trialers are not required to have MOT's, nor are Comp Safari vehicle... so why should challenge vehicles? The classes all look pretty simple to me... Just as they did before, as they have not changed... B) I am sure the change in the rules has been thought out and looked at from every angle by Neil and fellow event organisers... So I doubt there is any need to try and pick holes in it... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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