martinc Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Ok after spending the last 48 hours scouring all sorts of forums and topics I cannot find a solution to my immobilised Range Rover problem so I'll give you the full story and see if anyone can help. I have a Range Rover 2002 51 plate 4.0 HSE, last of the P38's. Returned from a 2 week holiday and it was dead. Not partially, but completely dead. No red flashing alarm led, no response to key fob, nothing. So I performed a manual unlock, remove battery, trickle charge overnight, re-connect battery - Engine Immobilised, please use remote or enter key code message on trying to start her up. What I've tried: EKA Procedure - have a 4 digit code on my security card, but it's written as "Key No" not in the "Emergency Key Access" code section. However I've called 2 separate dealers, one who I quoted the code to and they confirmed it was the EKA, another whom I requested the EKA from and they verified the code I have. So I have to assume this is the correct code at this moment. There seems to be a couple of variations of this procedure on-line, and the AA chappie who looked at the car on Sunday also verified this from their Vixen system, 4 turns anticlockwise to lock position then 1st number turns clockwise to open, 2nd number turns ACW to lock, 3rd number turns CW to open, 4th number turns ACW to lock, then One turn to open and alarm should be disarmed, start vehicle. For each of the above ensuring it's performed slowly, going to full extent in each direction returning to centre at each turn. I've also tried other variation of this, i.e. turn to lock and hold for 10 seconds first, then enter code and reversing the turn directions for each digit (seems to be a LHD/RHD confusion). All doors and tailgate + bonnet are shut when doing this. None of the above is working for me, but I have some observations: At the original point of battery re-connect, drivers door was shut (didn't read until afterwards I wasn't supposed to do that) and neither key fob operated the doors. Have read that a battery disconnect and re-connect with the drivers door open and the key in the ignition at position 2 might get around this, not for me. I am not getting any beeps or sounds at all from the alarm system whilst doing this (some posts refer to hearing the mis-lock if you abort the procedure half way through etc, no matter what I do I hear nothing.) The key turns are supposed to be acknowledged by corresponding illumination of the indicator lights on the dash, I see nothing. (tried with window down as well in case I just wasn't seeing it) When I disconnect and re-connect the battery, even with driver door open and ignition at position 2, the car immediately goes into keycode lockout. When opening the door manually the alarm led is flashing quickly for about 10 seconds and then slowing back down to it's normal "armed" pulse rate. When opening or closing the doors or bonnet, all indicators flash for about 15 seconds. Read that the door handle position could cause the the key turns not to be send, so I'm making sure the handle is fully returned. Got the door trim off to check that the wires are definately connected to the microswitches for the handle (which they appear to be, if someone could confirm that no wires go directly up to the handle itself but rather to the actual lock mechanism halfway down the door, they appear to be plugged in ok). After you turn the key the first 4 times to go into "EKA entry mode" should you get some kind of indication that it's ready for the code? So that's where I'm up to. Can find anything else that I've not tried online, and I'm bl00dy reluctant to have to get it into a dealer just because the battery went flat! I can see the pound signs in their eyes already. Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated, I'm also trying to find out if there is a way to simulate the electrical pulses to the BECM unit (that must be getting sent when you turn the key) as the complete lack of indication of key turns is making me suspect that there is some kind of issue with the door microswitches themselves. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I'd start with a new battery first. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrRob Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Something to think about when you have it all sorted........my mate has a small solar panel rigged up in his 4.6 to keep the battery topped up when he leaves it for a while. If you PM me then I can put you in touch. Cheers Rob PS West 4x4 in Hampshire are P38 leccy specialists so I've been told Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 None of the above is working for me, but I have some observations:At the original point of battery re-connect, drivers door was shut (didn't read until afterwards I wasn't supposed to do that) and neither key fob operated the doors. Yepp and next time you'll no doubt read the manual before barging in, hamfistet. The reason you should not do this with the doors shut, (and especially with the keys in the ignition, as a friend found out) is that the BECM see's the sudden appplication of power as a threat (theft, hotwire) action and locks down. As far as I am aware, you will need to hook up to diagnostics. But I'll ask my friend that had it happen how it was solved for him. I can remember it wasn't straight forward though. You don't want to know the size of the bill either, but this is Norway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I think you are on the right track in almost every specific you have mentioned. The door switches are only on the latch, not the door handle. With no dashboard indicator, it's highly likely the latch switch operation is not being seen. This might be a switch fault, or might be a disconnect of the mechanical linkage between the key switch in the door handle, and the latch. The surrounding circumstances indicate this is unlikely in your case. With no dashboard reaction to turning the key, any variations in the EKA procedure are academic, so I'm not bothering with those yet. As an aside "When opening or closing the doors or bonnet, all indicators flash for about 15 seconds". Did it do a 15 second flash sequence before you went on holiday? There are options as to how a vehicle lock is indicated, but that reads like an alarm sequence, not a 'vehicle is locked' indication. "I am not getting any beeps or sounds at all from the alarm system whilst doing this (some posts refer to hearing the mis-lock if you abort the procedure half way through etc, no matter what I do I hear nothing.)" This is worrying. Without going and testing mine specifically, and as a '95 it doesn't match yours exactly, I'm sure you should get some audible indication. Reading the ETM, under Alarm Triggered conditions the Hazard flashing should be matched by the Alarm Sounder sounding. As a 2001 has a battery backed sounder, it seems that battery is also flat. I don't recall if it will recharge, but I do read that if the Alarm is trigged, the sounder will sound for 4.5 minutes, so I suggest not worrying about a silent sounder at the moment. THe BBS may also be faulty, if you have never heard it before you might not have realised this. Do you have two fobs? Have you changed the batteries in the fobs?, If not, I suggest you don't. It's very easy to lose synchronisation when you change the fob batteries, and you cannot re-synchronise to a car with the alarm set. You have to switch the alarm off first. The EKA procedure should switch the alarm off, which is how you get out of this Catch 22. In a 2001 you will have friendly re-synchronisation anyway, activated when the key is placed in the ignition. On reading the ETM, my caution doesn't matter. By the vehicle battery going flat, or total disconnection, re-synchronisation is required. Friendly re-synchronisation will still work, if the fob is working, but needs the operation of the CDL (Central Door Locking) switch to initiate the procedure. Failure of the CDL is the conclusion we have anyway. Do I take it that you do not have the circuit diagrams? These are on the RAVE disc, which you can download as an image file from the Green Oval Downloads section. Note you then have to extract the files from the Image, normally by burning a CD via a suitable application, then run the RAVE application by running the RAVE.exe file. Section S3 of the ETM (Electrical Troubleshooting Manual) is what you need. The door latch switches are routed via the door outstation, which you can see with the trim panel removed. All switches are shown Normally Open, and each switch sends an Earth when operated. This Earth comes from the Outstation, but you could substitute a local direct Earth if you wished. You should be safe measuring the switch operations with a multimeter, analogue or digital. Measuring the wires either at the latch, or at the outstation, the Earth is on the Black wire, CDL is on the Green/Red (GR), with the Key Switch on the Blue/Red (UR). Now it doesn't actually go through the circuit operation in the ETM, so what follows is my analysis. I would keep the window wound down during all these tests. You can even leave the passenger door open if you want to gain access while doing these tests. All switches are shown normally open, so with the door open, the unlock state is shown by Earth on the Black (obviously), and presumably no earth on the CDL (GR), and more definately no Earth on the Keyswitch (UR). Check that the state of the CDL changes when you close and lock the door. Irrespective of whether the CDL is earthed or not, I'd expect the Keyswitch (UR) to show an Earth whenever the key is fully turned in EITHER direction. Check both directions. Note that when you input the EKA, the BECM will know which way you turn the Keyswitch by monitoring the CDL. In one direction the CDL will be Earthed, in the other direction the CDL will not be Earthed. If it is a latch switch fault, it looks like the CDL is not showing the unlocked state, so whatever condition you find on the GR wire, reverse it. Note that 'if it is a latch switch fault'. I'm not ruling out a wiring fault outside the door. The door wiring goes through a wiring connector in the A pillar that corrodes, and the wiring under the carpet can also corrode, or transmit water to the BECM connectors, which then corrode. This corrosion is triggered by leaking heater O rings. Good Luck, I appreciate your perseverance so far, and desire to DIY rather than let the Dealers enjoy themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I'd start with a new battery first.Cheers Steve Just to be clear. This wasn't a flippant comment. If you have any doubts as to the health of the battery change it out and start again. P38 BECM's are very particular to battery voltage and can start to give all sort of errors and malfunctions if the battery is not 100%. It's not worth trying a number of methods to recover it if you can't be sure that battery is A1. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Rather than endlessly mess around tying to find different ways of getting the EKA into your car,have someone with Testbook recode it for you.Later variants of BECM's have this facility built in,its literally 2 mins work.Once it is up and running you then have a chance to sort out door latch switching/battery drain issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Talked to my friend today. Unfortunately it wasn´t as simple as connecting up the diagnostics kit, the mechanic also had to manually bypass/ reset the immobiliser within the enginebay. However his is a DSE, so may be slightly different. Unfortunately he doesn´t have any details as to exactly what needed doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinc Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Ok, managed to solve the first problem! Got the multimeter out and and unplugged the connector from the door lock actuator and just ran through a series of connectivity tests between the switch common and the 3 switch functions in the actuator, namely door ajar, CDL and Key. The door ajar and CDL switches are signalling ok but the key turn switch is not functioning, hence no EKA input signal being received. So to resolve this, I raked through my electronic bit and bobs and found an old push button switch (of a guitar fx pedal as I recall!) and piggy backed it across pins 11( black) and 6 (Blue/Red) on the connector C1579 in the door outstation. I literally just took the wire tails from the switch and pushed them into the back of the connector block where the normal wires are and put the connector back into the outstation. Wind the window down, close and lock the car and then use the button to simulate key turns, remembering to lock and unlock as required for each digit. Presto, one open car! Phew. Re-sync the handset and all locking now functioning as normal. So now it's turning over fine but not starting (I have also replaced the battery in the meantime). So I'm trying to work out if I have a fuel pressure problem as the car now hasn't been driven for about 3 weeks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psxnut Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Hi Chaps, Would really appreciate some help also on this topic, I have a 1999 P38 4.6 HSE and like martinc have exactly the same problem. Flat battery and only way to get in was to use the key manually.The only difference is that I fitted a brand new battery. I tried EKA without any responce or indication that it was working at all. I have done a continuity test on the micro switches and all seem to be working and switching fine, the cdl didn't work on lock and unlock and stripping down and looking inside the door catch mechanism seems to suggest to me that if the cdl is not swiching its micro switch, EKA won't work and therfore not enabling EKA to turn the alarm partially off to resyncronise the key in the ignition. Any suggestions and advise would be great. I to, like martinc don't give up easily and would rather use my mistake to learn. Thanks advance psxnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoggyN Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Just to be clear. This wasn't a flippant comment. If you have any doubts as to the health of the battery change it out and start again.P38 BECM's are very particular to battery voltage and can start to give all sort of errors and malfunctions if the battery is not 100%. It's not worth trying a number of methods to recover it if you can't be sure that battery is A1. Cheers Steve I can second this comment. I had a similar problem with a Rover 800 and the EKA procedure would not work until the battery was at full voltage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psxnut Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi again, An update to where I am at the moment, I connected the plug up again with the micro switch hanging out the side of the locking mechanism, did a simulated EKA just pushing the appropriate switches with my fingers and hey prosto entered the correct code and got my key to re-syc, al working accept key fob lock, unlock works fine, cdl working manually with key, car starts. Just this key fob lock to sort, any help appreciated. cheers psxnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psxnut Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi again, All sorted, the key fob locking was just the ignition not disengaging when I removed the key from it, now locks and all is working as before. Thats 1 DIY the dealer won't be earning from. Thanks for the help. psxnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhysy20 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 Trying to rehash on old thread here but having a similar issue. Immobilised the engine and having no luck getting the EKA in. Got the multimeter out and tested CDL. Shows 5v weather it is opened closed, locked or unlocked. When turning the key it will show 4.5v in the lock position, 5v in the unlock position. The key position (UR) goes to 0V when moved either into lock or unlock, otherwise it sits at 5v also. electrical sparky nonsense is not my strong suit but also looking at saving some coin and learning a bit more along the way. I am getting absolutely no reaction from the car at all no matter what I do with the lock. The dash also says “press remote”, with no option for “or enter key” The remote has been through the ringer and no longer has its buttons… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 You want to do the door latch test with it disconnected from the car (not removed, that's a lot more work, just unplug the wires from the latch), checking for continuity instead of voltage. See attached procedure. Repairing the fob is possible, but wont do you any good when the car is in an alarmed stated as that prevents synchronizing the fob. If you're sure about the EKA, it can only be the latch. It is possible to bypass a faulty latch and use pigtails to enter the code (never needed to do that myself as I have a good supply of spare latches). P38 Door Latch Tests.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 35 minutes ago, Escape said: See attached procedure. That's a dead 'link'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 31 minutes ago, Peaklander said: That's a dead 'link'. Wroks fine for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 This is the error I get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Works for me both on a mobile and laptop. Though my laptop came up with an unsafe source warning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Oh well I will just have to manage without it. I have no idea why I can't access it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 10 hours ago, Peaklander said: Oh well I will just have to manage without it. I have no idea why I can't access it. Sorry, no idea what the problem might be either. The file is in the same location I use to post other manuals etc on forums, never heard of any problems and I see no reason why it would be unsafe. I'd be happy to send it by PM or email if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 Hi. I don’t have a P38 but clicked as I was curious to read about the technique. So thanks for the offer and pm if you have time. I posted that I couldn’t read it thinking that others might not be able to either. I pay my forum money so it can’t be that 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.