Richard K Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Just been offered a deal on a set of King 2.5 bypass shocks with 12" travel. Too good to turn down! The car is currently on a standard set of HD LR130 springs and sits a little higher than normal. It does road work and a lot of fast desert driving - often with heavy loads. I would like it to go faster without breaking apart so these shocks are tempting. I'm trying to -roughly- figure out the implications of fitting them - will the car need a spring lift to get the right ratio of up/down travel for speed? Or just raised turrets/mounts? Or a combination? Or... If I could avoid a lift and get the right effect that would be ideal as i don't like the idea of a high CofG, more complications & £££ - but I've heard that if up travel is much less than down travel then the car could actually be worse at speed...? Not bothered about articulation - just speed and handling on rough ground. I'm guessing it's complicated - so just scrabbling around for some rough ideas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Just been offered a deal on a set of King 2.5 bypass shocks with 12" travel. Too good to turn down!The car is currently on a standard set of HD LR130 springs and sits a little higher than normal. It does road work and a lot of fast desert driving Blimey ! Manchester's changed since I was last there ! Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Nothing wrong with having more down travel than up, if the shocks are doing their job properly. You might want to think about some hydraulic bump stops too though. Watch a Baja or CORR race to see what can be done with lots of "droop". I'm not sure how much of an improvement the kings would be over a twin shock setup if you're using normal springs. Using HD130 springs means you're going to need a LOT of damping to keep them from oscillating and I would be less than convinced about the ability of the shock to control that and the ride quality won't be much better at speed than a twin shock setup either. Maybe with some custom valving you can get them tuned to the springs so they both damp the oscillation and aren't too harsh. The kings really come into their own with the coil over setups where they do make a HUGE difference. Having tried to follow a King coil over setup Range Rover at high speed in the desert, they really are a world apart from my LR spring and twin shock setup. Having said that, the downside of getting your suspension setup too good is the longevity of the vehicle suffers. Just because you aren't feeling the pain doesn't mean your vehicle isn't feeling it. Your axles are taking much bigger and harder impacts and you're so isolated from that that you think you're taking it easy while the axles are disintegrating underneath you. Not a problem for short course work but worth thinking about if you're intending to do any distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard K Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 Nothing wrong with having more down travel than up, if the shocks are doing their job properly. You might want to think about some hydraulic bump stops too though. Watch a Baja or CORR race to see what can be done with lots of "droop".I'm not sure how much of an improvement the kings would be over a twin shock setup if you're using normal springs. Using HD130 springs means you're going to need a LOT of damping to keep them from oscillating and I would be less than convinced about the ability of the shock to control that and the ride quality won't be much better at speed than a twin shock setup either. Maybe with some custom valving you can get them tuned to the springs so they both damp the oscillation and aren't too harsh. Thanks for the reply. Enjoyed the youtube on your sig. Do you mean the springs are likely to be too stiff for the shocks? Two of them need replacing so this is something I can look at). One thing I had considered was a more supple setup, but with air bags at the rear to help under load. Having said that, the downside of getting your suspension setup too good is the longevity of the vehicle suffers. Just because you aren't feeling the pain doesn't mean your vehicle isn't feeling it. Your axles are taking much bigger and harder impacts and you're so isolated from that that you think you're taking it easy while the axles are disintegrating underneath you. Not a problem for short course work but worth thinking about if you're intending to do any distance. This I am aware of - we'll not be racing, just maintaining a healthy pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Do you mean the springs are likely to be too stiff for the shocks? Two of them need replacing so this is something I can look at). One thing I had considered was a more supple setup, but with air bags at the rear to help under load. I've been told that the valving on the Kings should cope as well with a single shock as my two "normal" gas shocks cope in controlling both the bump and rebound. If they do then you should get the best of both worlds, control without the relatively harsh ride of a twin shock setup. Most of the problems I've had have been with the rear springs, in part because running 110 springs limits the choice so to get the lift I have to use stiff springs. When you hit a bump at speed , it'll kick the back end up unless your shock absorbers can absorb the bump and slow down the rebound. Softer, longer, springs will help reduce this and make it easier for the shock to control. It gets into a pattern over washboards where each time it kicks up, it comes down harder on the next bump, then kicks up higher and so on. With a single shock setup and HD 110 hardtop springs in my previous setup it got so bad that I nearly went end over, when tree strops out of the rear tub came past the drivers window i decided to back off... The twin shock setup with Lovells shock absorbers has cured the problem completely - just having problems getting the power down now ! If the twin shock setup hadn't worked I was going to try getting some Lovells springs for the back as they seem to do a reasonable range for the 110/130 and I was hoping to finder a softer/longer spring. As it is I'll stick with the LR spring now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard K Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 When you hit a bump at speed , it'll kick the back end up unless your shock absorbers can absorb the bump and slow down the rebound. Softer, longer, springs will help reduce this and make it easier for the shock to control. It gets into a pattern over washboards where each time it kicks up, it comes down harder on the next bump, then kicks up higher and so on. With a single shock setup and HD 110 hardtop springs in my previous setup it got so bad that I nearly went end over, when tree strops out of the rear tub came past the drivers window i decided to back off... The twin shock setup with Lovells shock absorbers has cured the problem completely - just having problems getting the power down now !If the twin shock setup hadn't worked I was going to try getting some Lovells springs for the back as they seem to do a reasonable range for the 110/130 and I was hoping to finder a softer/longer spring. As it is I'll stick with the LR spring now. You are telling a familiar story. The kick from the first hit is controllable, the second more violent and the third brings things to a standstill ! I don't want the complications or instability of a lift, but I am now wondering whether a longer, softer spring compressed to standard ride height under what is usually a well-loaded car might work better with the Kings than the shorter, harder HD LR springs. Hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100inch Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 You can valve the King`s to suit your car and driving style, but make sure you are using the full travel, otherwise your bypasses are pretty much useless. You will need decent mounts otherwise they will rip off...and yes, do not try valving to reduce body roll.m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard K Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 Thanks for the replies. In a bout of realism I'm going to opt for the 'smooth' remote reservoir shocks (2.5" 12" travel) as they will fit to standard Tomcat mounts and should be less work to tune. Any savings will go towards some good bumps and some properly tuned springs. Not sure whether it will need axle limiters/straps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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