pinkbeef Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Hi all, I just picked up a Freelander 1.8 K, which has a blown head gasket. Now I've sorted a few head gaskets in my time but this has me stumped. The engine oil is contaminated with water as expected, but its also very thick, It's like treacle. That's not a problem as I've washed it of, but i'm a bit concerned about the oil ways to the main bearings and the oil pump. Should I pull out the crankshaft out and flush out the oil ways too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Some oils become thick and almost jellyish if they are in the engine too long. It's a sign of poor servicing. Some oils also react with each other - such as mixing synthetic with mineral, for example. I've never done it, so I don't know what happens when you do it. If the oil is very thick, then it might be wise to flush it out - either with proper flushing oil, or put cheapo stuff in there for a couple of days and then change the oil again. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 When I have done 1.8 head gasket in FLs the oil is like a green treacle. Had always assumed that this was the resultant 'mayo' from water and oil emulsiving (sp?). I have removed the sump, oil rail and (IIRC) the oil pump stainer and cleaned them all with brake cleaner. Did the same thru the oil ways in the block. Once reassembled with new oil and filter, run for a couple of hundred miles and then do an oil and filter change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkbeef Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share Posted November 1, 2008 OK skimmed the head and fitted the new MLS headgasket complete with head saver shim, all i need to do now is skim the head and fit a new head gasket (one that works). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkbeef Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 Stripped the head off again, and it looks like the gasket failed to adhesive to the block and the head. I used break cleaner to clean off any debris from both mating faces. Checked the head for level and the block its all OK. The liners are proud by 3 thou, so its fine their. I can only assume the jointing faces may still have been dirty, what can I use to clean the mating faces with. On a second note has anyone run up an engine with out water in it to get the heat up to adhesive the gasket to the block and head. Pretty risky but it would prevent contamination of the seal prior to adhesion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyb Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 For cleaning mating surfaces I have used Scotch bright and brake cleaner. Works well on all gasket surfaces without leaving and scores. As for the head gasket. IIRC I left mine in front of an oil burning heater to get it warm in the hope that the adhesive would start to get soft. Seems to have worked. That was nearly 2 years ago now HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkbeef Posted December 15, 2008 Author Share Posted December 15, 2008 OK, I have reinstalled a new head gasket, totally cleaned both mating surfaces with scotch pad and break cleaner and she runs very well. BUT!!!! now I'm getting a lot of white smoke from the exhaust, once she has warmed up. Compression test is equal on all cylinders, between 140-150. The inlet manifold gasket is the new green gasket, shows no sing of a water leak. Inspection of the spark plugs, Gray brown deposits no sing of water or rust. Inspection of the piston crowns down the spark plug holes shows carbon deposits not steamed cleaned as you would expect from a leaking head gasket. (but the crowns do appear to be damp, which I put down to unburnt fule) Cooling system pressure test failed to find any leaks. Cooling system is not being pressurised beyond its expected running limits. No sing of coolant contamination from combustion gases or oil. No sing of contamination of the oil from water. The engine runs very well, no misfire or lack of response, in fact the only problem is the white smoke from the exhaust and I mean serious white smoke, its steam as it forms water if you place your hand the tail pipe, your hand gets soaked. Q. Has anyone got any ideas what the problem could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO3528 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Just possible it is residual water pumped into the exhaust system from before the engine was repaired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 I agree with Deano - water and/or oil in the exhaust from when the gasket blew sometimes takes a while to be removed. The vehicle needs to be driven up to temperature and maintained for a while to clean it out. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkbeef Posted December 15, 2008 Author Share Posted December 15, 2008 Its not water in the exhaust ive run it for over two hours, spent too much time on this engine, its coming out for a full strip and rebuild only way to find the fault, bugger should have dune this in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveJ Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Its not water in the exhaust ive run it for over two hours, spent too much time on this engine, its coming out for a full strip and rebuild only way to find the fault, bugger should have dune this in the first place. Don't know whether this helps or not but had similar situation with my 300tdi. Did all the head gasket etc then when I put it back together, and after it got warm I to had serious amounts of steam when warm. Head off again and had it pressure tested (i should have done this in the first place) which revealed a pressure leak inside the head - internal crack or fracture due to it overheating initially before all work commenced. New head required for me! HTH DaveJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkbeef Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Don't know whether this helps or not but had similar situation with my 300tdi. Did all the head gasket etc then when I put it back together, and after it got warm I to had serious amounts of steam when warm. Head off again and had it pressure tested (i should have done this in the first place) which revealed a pressure leak inside the head - internal crack or fracture due to it overheating initially before all work commenced. New head required for me!HTH DaveJ Yes im going to have to try a second head, if only to discount the head from being the problem, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Did you leave the gasket to settle for a couple of hours? With the BGA gaskets we sell for them, they have an instruction sheet that reads along the lines of ; reassemble, run engine to temp, then leave to cool completely with the bonnet up before retorquing the bolts. We have had one of the new gaskets fail because of this procedure not being followed. (Can't check exact wording, as i would have to split a gasket open) I know of a good 1.8 K series head with valves if you need one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If the head was cracked, then the cooling system would pressurize and you would also lose water. It seems to me that you have done all the necessary tests to confirm that the engine is ok. If a lot of water and/or oil is in the exhaust, then 2-hours wouldn't be enough. I would run it until the tail pipe was too hot to touch and then allow it to run for another 30-minutes or so. Remember that the silencers will all contain water/oil, so ideally need to reach boiling point for a sustained period to clear the exhaust right out. If you want to make sure, then disconnect the downpipe and start the engine - if the problem lies with the engine, then you will still get white smoke from it. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkbeef Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 What if I heated the exhaust by another method to evaperate the oil/water collected in it, like setting the pile of carp on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 It might not be a pile of carp, you just need a little extra patience. Would it be better to exercise a bit of patience, or bung another pile of money at it when you may not need to? Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkbeef Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Did you leave the gasket to settle for a couple of hours?With the BGA gaskets we sell for them, they have an instruction sheet that reads along the lines of ; reassemble, run engine to temp, then leave to cool completely with the bonnet up before retorquing the bolts. We have had one of the new gaskets fail because of this procedure not being followed. (Can't check exact wording, as i would have to split a gasket open) I know of a good 1.8 K series head with valves if you need one.... I use the same procedure for any engine, run up to operating temp, cool down. re torque (if the torque is measured in lbs.). With the K engine the torque applied to the head bolts is measured in degrees so retorqing is not an option. I've never had a cracked head before, which would explain why I've has such a disastrous time diagnosing it. Im looking for a head so have PM you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkbeef Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 It might not be a pile of carp, you just need a little extra patience. Would it be better to exercise a bit of patience, or bung another pile of money at it when you may not need to?Les. Im going to start it up now, and when I get up tomorrow see if its still blowing white smoke or worse. ill drain the tank and only put in 1gallon of petrol to ensure it wont run for too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Could be water in the zorst, as has been said it'll take a while to clear out especially with the FL backbox being huge and right on the end of the system, idling probably won't do it - a good motorway blast would help. Could also be inlet manifold O-rings as those leak into the intake tract. As Dave Andrews said to me, they're not bad engines, they're good engines built badly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkbeef Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Could be water in the zorst, as has been said it'll take a while to clear out especially with the FL backbox being huge and right on the end of the system, idling probably won't do it - a good motorway blast would help. Could also be inlet manifold O-rings as those leak into the intake tract.As Dave Andrews said to me, they're not bad engines, they're good engines built badly Im a bit worried about taking her down a motorway all the steam coming out the exhaust would creat a problem for other motorway users. well it worth a try ill leave it till early in the morning. Wifeys going to be real Mildly miffed when i phone her up from Corley services, asking for a lift home. Im going to get my eddioscope from work shove it down the plug holes and see if i can capture some picks for you lot see what you thing of the bores. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// EDIT /////////////////// OK so i warmed it up, 15 mins to allow the frost to be melted from the front screen. Then I took it down the road (500 yards), and the temp gauge dropped to 0 from halfway up the dial. at which point the steam stopped from the exhaust (not totally, but was reduced to a very small amount). Anyone got any idears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 If the temp gauge drops to zero it suggests there's no coolant for it to be measuring - did you bleed the system properly? This is a major thing with the K-series, you have to make sure everything is bled as prescribed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkbeef Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 Stuck some radweld in it and ran it for a couple of hours, when i pull the head off tomorrow ill be able to see if the gasket was breached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkbeef Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Ok so i got some images of the block and new gasket. A cleaned block ready for the gasket you can see the slight profile of the sleeve above the block top front marker on gasket head saver shim in place now this is worrying, you can see the sleeve is not fully covered by the headgasket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The fire rings crush/expand when you tighten the head bolts. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveJ Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The fire rings crush/expand when you tighten the head bolts.Les. Les, when I had the crack somewhere in the head on the 300tdi it didn't actually over pressure the coolant system - weird? and this is what threw me! Yes It did use water but not at an overly excessive rate. When driving you didn't notice the steam so much. Pull up to the traffic lights and it was like the Philadelphia project Others couldn't see the Disco for steam DaveJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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