North Off Road - Challenge Wings - A full 'Fitting Report'

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Right then,

We all know just how delicate our front wings are.

I decided a while ago mine after the Howling Wolfe looked just too scabby,

so I bought new wing tops / outers, and had them sprayed up etc,

and spent the best part of a weekend removing the old and replacing with the new ones.

Then last weekend "Rowlands Castle" with the SLRC, and some 45 mins into the day BOTH my new straight front wings er...weren't :

It was ONLY a small tree nothing huge, the wing literally collapsed and Jon White with me

heard the driver says 'something' like "Oh FFS Clucking Bell notaferkinferkingain"

So, I had done some research prior to me even doing the last new wing refit,

I had looked at what was about, I had chosen NOR as prob the best out there,

AND i even posted up a thread asking how good they were,

the feedback was positive, so I ordered a set and this thread covers the start and final fitment of these wings,

whats involved, how easy (or not) they are, what the quality / fit is like and loads more including a few mods I have planned of my own.

I also plan to keep the existing 'inner wings', and make it more of a "Factory" type fitment than maybe a full blown challenge truck

I expect to keep the heater fit my snorkle, and have everything unboltable and not rivetted,

time will tell how this develops, the idea here is to give others a really good idea what is involved here in fitting these wings

and what pitfalls there may be and how to maybe get around them,

I do not profess to be the first to fit these,

but will try to give an in depth report of how and what is invovled plus some ideas for tweaks should you think they are a gpod idea

If you are thinking of maybe fitting a set of these then this thread should give you an idea of all of the above

and what involved, and with a bit of luck some confidence in doing the same job, ........unless it turns out to be a nightmare

I must admit so far I am impressed,

Shaun at NOR couldn't have been more helpful,

this may have been after I promised him a copy from VOSA avround these being street legal ,

but actually in fairness he is a great guy and hugely helpful

I went for the "Normal" wing, not the Xtreme wings (no, even these are not ornage )

and even now I can see a huge approach angle improvement,

seeing the kit on unpacking the quality is evident, so here is where I am so far :

There are a number of items that the new kit will need securing -

Radiator Header tank, PAS res, Heater duct, Washer bottle, radiator both sides and varuous wires and hoses inc ARBs

my freespool air activated unit and other bits and bobs, quite a lot is "Bolted" to the front wings as you can see here,

these will need fixing and brackets amde I will show each of these steps :

This is very much a build in progress vs a Build thread,

I am unsure what I am going to find as yet and how I will get round to it,

I also have a few planned 'mods' in place,,,,,,,,, time will tell if these do happen or not

So,

1st step after getting the 90 outside was to take a few pics of what goes where and view the std front for one last time :

After that I removed the light Covers the individual light lens covers,

the wing had to be unbolted - loads of bolts and some a real PITA - just tricky to get to,

but some couple of hours later both front wings are off :

What didn't please me so far was that my twin kenlowes are mounted on a frame which is then bolted to the inner wing flat plates of the wings,

this means they now have no mounting at all ..........and therefore join the bits on the flooor needing fixing

Next weekend SWMBO is away, ........so I am hoping that at the end of next weekend the majority of the work is done - we will see

Grabbed a lump of Driver wing and did a 'shove it on stylee' fit, ...........

...things need tweaking...... but so far looks promising fit wise .......and the qulaity seem very very good

Nige

[ciderman]

You got them then Nige , Kept that quiet didnt you

They do look good , and for what they cost is a snip of what std wings would set you back every 2 months

[Les Brock]

Alternativly.... Nige could just have adjusted his driving style .........

Nah.....maybe not

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Alternativly.... Nige could just have adjusted his driving style .........

Oh yeah right....

More chance of getting Pingu a Doctorate in Quantum Physics

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Righty Ho then, another day, another PITFA

Didn't get as far as planned, partly due to thinking mods through,

partly due to various mates arriving "Needing" things, .....

I am now lighter of steel, angle and Mig wire, but keeps them happy

Anyway, I did get some done,.... much was a matter of removal of the last bits of wings parts,

then a case of bolting the frame work together.... and 'offering' up as they say.....

It was at this point I re discovered the weridness of LR body n chassis datums, mine are all over the place,

I did finally work out one thing, - my cage is absolutely flush -1.5mm from the body sides (or the insides of the old wings)

and the NOR cage er...isn't. ie my cage is Wider than NOR planned fitment

This meant a choice of 2 ways to fit,

fit with the NOR bars in the correct place, .....and then make fit my (wider) cage

or (and what I have done)

Fit to my cage, then widen the centre bar so as to make square at the front and sides, ie in effect I have widened it slightly (about 8mm)

and fit 2x 4mm spacers one each side at the base, or not, as the side mounts on my chassis aren't that accurate, much fiddling

This then was the plan, and here are some more pics, doesn't look much

but there was quite a lot of 'musing things' through, cutting shutting, drilling

Making the cage joiners a perfect fit for my cage (different OD I guess from what NOR use)

drilled cross bolt holes, and lining it all up...actually LOADs of the "lining it all up - it does

your head in as whatever you seem to measure from gives odd readings now and again.........

Spirit levels should be banned from this sort of job, unless your on a 100% level floor and have 100% level suspension

Having got it all "Close" when the rain (and F me didn't it ) stooped for a few minutes it came outside for that

"long distant looking that tells you what not square.....In the main the tube work is pretty good,

not 100% perfect as the drivers base tube and passenger base tube are very slightly different, but wih lumps of wood

bits of string and a couple of mates taking the P (thanks) and winding me up over it ....all the rear mounts were heavily 'tacked' into place

The ali tops have been cut to fit around the cgae, and more trial fitting took place, all seems now to be lined up

Tops seem level, sides match and the width is the same, nothing has yet been welded up as I what to make sure arches wings inners

etc all fit and line up 1st ! - if they don't then gawd help me !

Some pics :

Quick shoved all together in workshop

Trial fit against cage (paint needed cleaning back pre welding)

Plus The same tubetweaked to be better fit and then removed

and "Cross Drilled" for 2x 10mm bolt fixings

This being an early V8 90 (1985) the Brake Servo is the thin and wide type

Too F wide type Inc even the fact I widened the whole frame slightly

Bit more Jiggling about and center bar cut and a spacer tacked in to make correct width (my issue not NOR)

and then the rain finally stopped

So, out side with bits of wood, hammers bars and tack welded the cage tubes into Place

then back in cut the ali top plates with cardboard templates so as to get it right 1st time

Then back inside, more fettling (mates and other jobs), and an idea ......

I am thinking of a Pair of HIDs (as al la Steve post) and I have a Bar which may work...

(bear in mind this is sitting about 3 inches too high )

Tommorrow will most likley see the sides cut off my Winch Bumper, and also the recovery points removed

Ali plates need to be fixed in, lights may get fitted, and a wing mounted to see if it still lines up with the inner wing

The outer wings are going to be bolted to a piece of angle made / shaped and then bolted to the bulkhead, with the bolts then

running top to bottom with nuts welded on the inside rather than rivetted to the cage, bit fussier and time consuming

but I think it will be neater and also easier to remove a wing in the future when I want to ....

Then there are all the bottles PAS Header Washer etc that need mounts, and the radiator mounts need sorting

and then theres a fair amount of welding if all is OK, like the cut out around the Servo, cage bars and the front panel etc

(I am binning the ali affair) and then the inner arches need both fixing to the bars from the inside AND the bases of both

are now far too long and need trimming and then boxing in as there will be a big hole between bar and inner wing etc etc etc

hey ho

There is no doubt that this could be fitted far quicker than I am doing, but I am a tad fussy, and I am only a DIYer not a Pro at this

so I'll take my time . So far so good, need to think about the A Bar on the front, and I have a couple of other mods yet to work through....

Hey ho, Fab n Fun, now, ........if it just could be dry tomorrow

Nige

[LittleBlue88]

Nice work dude!

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Another day - an another load of interuptions

In the end I cracked on with it, pics below but its still not done.

Ali Top wing Plate mounted on Passenger side, drilled 6mm holes then a 10.8 (this gives a countersink)

then Stainless Countersunk Bolts and Nuts, Pig to drill exactly where you want with chequer plate

Oh and a tip - if you want to continue to run a heater then ensure you put the plastic ducting

in under the wing BEFORE you finish fitting the wing .

Gives a decent finished look rather than millions of pop rivits,

when it all comes apart I may rivnut them being a tart

Made a selection of brackets all are Drill and tapped so removal is easier then faffing about with spanners and twisted arms :

Brackets made for Washer Bottle, Header Tank, PAS Resovior. Had a play with fitting the outer wings / arches / line up with inner wing

thank F something is straight they will be fitted via 2x angle plates bolted to the bulkhead and captive nut and bolts

top to bottom (still to be done) and to fit these the whole lot has to come off

Headlamp plastic clips that hold the light in place with 4x screws wouldn't come out,

in the end I drilled the holes and rivnuts and Stainless Cap allen bolts hold the Headlamps in,

indicators and Sidelights start to make it look almost finished - which it isn't -

not by a long way, .......but a lot lot closer after a weekend of work (and mates constantly arriving / ringing)

Still to do (theres prob more but what I can think of) :

Panel sides of radiator so flow goes through rad, sort out bonnet securing / lock, Radiator mounting, make ad fit the angles for the bulkhead, trim both front wings, trim both front inner arches, finish drilling holes driver chequer plate drill 2x holes for top tube mounting to clear, bonnet stay mounting, fit horn, fit front grill and assembly, make panels for tube wing base to cut inner wings, fit side lights and wire it all up, then remove and weld up everything needing welding paint and refit. Mess about with side pieces on winch bumper (prob cut off) and make A Bar fit and make and fit new recovery points....

"Bugger"

Nige

[rob90]

Have you got any further with the job?

im interested to see how you get on and tackle the problems that come up, I know I spent a lot of time trying to decide how to do some aspects of the fitting

[JST]

where did the snorkel go?

[rob90]

where did the snorkel go?

I cut the top hash plate about and used a long length of flexi hose to route it behind the fan(heater) then attached the snorkel to the front of the cage.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Have you got any further with the job?

im interested to see how you get on and tackle the problems that come up, I know I spent a lot of time trying to decide how to do some aspects of the fitting

Didn't even set foot in the workshop last weekend - will be all this weekend so expect result

Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Ok, another update

Although I had planned the weekend at this, ..........didn't turn out that way

But, still got a fair bit done..Had to redo the drivers wing bars,

notice now no paint, the other one is also to be stripped.

I have had a few PMs about how to get the front wing bars 'level', so

here are the pics of how I did it, not exactly high tech - a big long strip of wood, and some g clamps

and a length of sticky tape, connect at the height then run back and pulled and stuck down, soon

shows if your 'off'

With the bars in place and everything well and truly 'tack' welded in place the rain started and I was

at least able to get back in the garage. The most obvious next bit was the radiator.

This was waggingly in the air, the base mounts were ok, but the 90 V8 radiator top mounts

are a 90 degree affair, bolting onto the inner wings - which er basically there are none now

With a freebie from Denvicks off the Forum ( Thanks Everso) I zipped to Gosport and picked up his kind offer -

and now had a lump of 200 tdi Top radiator and Intercoller plate........

With some seriously carefull (read 4x) measuring and drilling I redrilled the plate to pick up the

2x V8 "Pins" on the top of the rad, used the diesel rubbers in these new holes drilled an

even bigger hole for the Radiator Plug to fit through and spent a stupid amount of time making up some brackets

The prob re the brackets was the top plate was slighly narrower than the Huge special V8 rad, as such

just welding a bracket onto the tubework would mean when I unbolted the top plate the radiator

would be wider than the gap to lift it out - so it wouldn't easily come out. I am also hoping that with

this lump of diesel fitted my MPG will be improved

The brackets therefore are 'shaped strips' welded to the tubes with 'shaped plates' bolting to both the

top plate and the side plates. Silly time for the 2x to be made and fitted, but wnated tham to

be both neat and with threaded mountings so no nuts required.

On the drivers side a hole also bored through the plate for the bonnet prop now in use

Also this was a good time to test out how in line everything was -

and with a bit of jiggling its squarer all around than you might expect

Then another amount of silly time jiggling and modifying my twin fan frame set up. After cutting shutting and Ferking around with it

it finally seemed to just fit, so to start with 4x 35mmx20mm x 5mm 'tags' were cut and taped and threaded and welded into place

Amazingly the tags fitted each side with less than a 1mm difference - (taken up with a grunt pre tack welding into place)

Just needs 2x top mounts into the top tube to finish, ...........but I had to pack up for the day / weekend.

So, still more to come, next it going to be the bonnet fixings after finishing the fans, and then on to more bits still to do

Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Dear God

"Today I have mainly Friggin about with one part of the Front end"

Unbeliveable amount of time spent today - on getting the bonnet to shut

I will explain.......

Most NOR front ends have IMVHO 2 things I didn't like

1 - The bonnet stuck over the front centre tube by about 1"

2 - The system of bonnets pins is used - I just don't like them

So, a plan was hatched a while back, today it now sort of actually works

but took most of the day - and only 2 interuptions

The plan started with a Kind Mr Wightman and Kind Mr Rogue Vogue and a lump

of their finest CDS Offcut same OD as the front tube, with two bends in it - ta

both much appreacited

This was then marked up and I had to "Slice" it end to end both sides so as to

give me a half thickness tube, and with a curve to zero at each end, I calculated

that this when fitted would A - protrude slightly from the bonnet leading edge and

B - Protect the bonnet more and C - give me enough width to use the locking system on a std 90

this std unit is wider than the tube on the NOR cage itself , hence this plan .....

Much chopping saw the tube cut and tacked on, and yes looked promising....

the small rectangular bits on the top are to hold it together, these will go when finsihed

Tacked into place looked OK...

Then a base plate for the unit, combo of Mr Plasma and the Milling Machine

and then tacked up and tried for fit

This gave me a wobbly but working lump to make good.

Loads of metal fabbing and weld tacks later....

Won't get much time in workshop tommorrow, but may get the grill mounts sorted ?

Bonnet shuts and opens a treat, bit more welding to finish but will do that when the grill tabs / mounts are done and tacked

into place, still a bit more to do, but I like both the tube sticky outy front end and the fact I have the bonnet slam from the std 90

even tho its taken best part of the day

Nige

[Turbocharger]

Again Nige it's your flimsy slapdash bodgery that lets the work down. Why can't you just take a little more time to do the job properly?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

^^^^^^

Git

well, on that basis I seemed to slow down today

Only had part of the day as have to leave tonight for work

Today saw the 6x mounting brackets made up and with rivnuts in for the front grill

A LOAD of welding on the front tube (top now done (in place) bottom still to be done

Combo of MIG and TIG (Mig to cover up the poor TIG in places )

And then symphony in G Minor for Angle grinder, as I cut off the 20mm solid steel plates and linished off flat both side

for trial fit of the A Frame - that and a few other things brings this thread up tio date I love cheap angle grinders

I used 2, alternating between them as they became to hot to hold (and I was wearing welding gloves )

Whilst to 90 is beginning to look more like a 90 again, the workshop is an absolute H&S Nightmare most tools

are now 'hung up on the floor', and its total chaos...........

AH

And I now need to wound a mate who came around today again who has a werid sense of humour,

he asked me "Didn't you want a hand" - I said 'no', not much he could do, then he said

"How about me giving you a small hand - and a tidy up ?" I didn't twig, he did a bit of tidying and left.

Now I know what he was on about - look Passenger wing - front panel ..... and yesterday on top of the rad plate

............... tis a magnet ............now mine

Nige

[Eddie]

Thanks Nige, Mine were delivered this week and hoping to have them fitted in a day but it may take a little longer after reading your report.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

You prob can fit them in a day to a challenge motor where being overly accurate isn't a huge issue, and its more the

extra bits n bobs that take the time, rivitting the tops for exapmple would be really really fast whereas mione are drilled,

countersunk and then rivnuts fitted into the wing themselves

Using Bonnet pins and not a day and a half as I did on the bonnet slam will reduce fitting times

The way I am going to fix the wings at the back onto the bulkhead has taken most of this afternoon, as I had the day off

I am hoping by the wend of this weekend they are finished and just awaiting painting...... Ha Ha...Hahaha Ha ha ha

Nige

[Anderzander]

This is a fantastic read

Looking really good too!

[upnover4x4]

You prob can fit them in a day to a challenge motor where being overly accurate isn't a huge issue, and its more the

extra bits n bobs that take the time, rivitting the tops for exapmple would be really really fast whereas mione are drilled,

countersunk and then rivnuts fitted into the wing themselves

Id thought about doing it that way but decided not to due to the amount of crud that gets deposited underneath. Suggest that you use as short a screw as needed so they dont leave any exposed thread on the backside of the rivnut, also covered with copperslip.Opted for the rivet approach which is brilliant for getting the panels of in a hurry to straighten them. The wing beading doesnt last long either on the side panels especially in trees & brush.

Did you have difficulty fitting the fan ducting? Had to leave mine off due to clearance issues & Im not running inner wings!

[bobed90]

Excellent write up. Im considering buying a set, how long did you have to wait once you had ordered them?

Thanks

[Eddie]

I ordered a complete cage/trayback and wing set and it took about 4 weeks but I'm sure Shaun (North off road) would keep the wings as stock items.

Another supplier I can highly recomend.

[T1G UP]

I ordered a complete cage/trayback and wing set and it took about 4 weeks but I'm sure Shaun (North off road) would keep the wings as stock items.

Another supplier I can highly recomend.

Been there this week, he has plenty of sets bent up!

Butg he's a busy boy.....fabbing top secret parts for my 90!

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Excellent write up. Im considering buying a set, how long did you have to wait once you had ordered them?

Thanks

One of the things about Shaun at NOR was when I phoned him he told me he was out of stock and to

ring back 7 days and wouldn't take the money off me until he had "Stock" - I said "B*****x"

and eventually he agreed to take the money, and explained a delay, then he phoned and said

he was about to deliver and a date and they then arrived

I would say if we exclude 7 days for the delay he told me about then its about 2 days delivery if stock, whatever the

timing he is a great guy you can trust

re upnover4x4 comment I am going to be using Stainless steel countersunk screws as this helps with the future 'undoing',

Stainless in M5/M6 is quite cheap, its only when you jump up size wise around M10 and bigger than prices go

horrible - M5/6 are nearly self coloured steel prices I have hit the inner wing now with "Mr Plasma" and things have jumped along today

Report up maybe tommorrow

Just a thought ?

Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Report up maybe tommorrow

Yeah Right,

Maybe tommorow tommorow

Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Righty Ho then an update as to where I am now (Sunday Evening)

STILL Not finished, but damned close

So, 3x more days at it, as I had Friday as a day off,

and worked all day saturday and sunday on it

Unreal where the time goes when fabricating ??

Right

First was a great oppotunity to practise me TIGging so I seam

welded up the double tube bonnet slam affair,

and no I know I won't win any awards for mt TIG work,

but it was around 4 foot of pratice , interpersed with the MIG Tack welds.

I also made up some "Bulkhead Bars", these are so as to be able to

have a neat mounting between the bulkhead the cage and the wing,

more later, but a bit of fabbing work saw these made

The much faffing and measuring and trimming of the wings to fit snugly,

plasma cutter does a great job, NOR did say the rear lengths of the wings

would always need trimming :

These were rivetted into place temp for checking, I was then planning to use captive rivnuts

and Stainless Dome head socket heads for the finished fixing - this will make them easy

to get on / off It was at this point the shambles in the workshop reached epic proportions - I

am a hugely messy worked, so when I finally couldn't get to the angle gringer(s)

I decided Friday PM and evening evening = a Giant tidy up

Anyone for 4x4 tool Knitting ?

Saturday again saw more done, the wings all removed saw me trim back the inner arches,

and drill and rivut all the top wing fixings and countersink all the drill holes,

drilling om chequerplate is a PITFA so I drilled from the underneath (smooth surface)

and then counter sunk the hole once there, trying to drill in chequerplate

from the top will often see the holes "No Exactly" where you wnat them

Whilst the wings were off all the various bracketry made and tacked on was

then welded up properly, also the rivnutting for the sides of the wings was done,

and other bits and bobs moved it all along sloooooooooowly

The bulkhead fixing were knicked from another forumers idea,

a shaped plate made up then fitted and ground away so as to make a clean fit with the cgae work :

These on both sides will need to still be drilled and rivnutted (tommorrows job)

but make for a nice neat solution rather than just pop rivets into the cagework ?

Then all primer stuff starts going back on , and here are a few shots showing the bonnet slam,

wing with rivnuts etc etc

At the end of this weekend I still (tommorrow) have a day off, hoping to move it to the final bits,

I have primered it as I need it back together for MOT and SLRC event on 28 Dec and have been warned about

"Your not spending every weekend in there over Christmas you know

So, at the 3 of the 3 days it now is sort of running again nearly but not quite finished,

I have also machined off the 4x Tabs in the headlamp area - I am having the headlamp

indicator and Side lights "Sunken" so the surface plate isn't being used,

and I have fitted them all to the back plate this giving IMHO some extra added [protection

More tomorrow

Nige