Guest mr_wuffles Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Could you fit a front axle on the back for rear steer? I think you'd need to cut the ends of and rotate them for it to turn the right way but apart from that would there be any other problems? You need some sort of dual acting hydraulic ram as well. I work with trucks and alot of them have rear steer fitted but the DAF's system seem to break all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 You'll need uprated CVs. Standard ones aren't up to the job, you'll break them in 5 minutes. Appart from that its very do-able. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr_wuffles Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 How come no-ones really done it but it seems to be big on the yank scene isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Rear steer is common in the modified trailing scene, not caught on for challenge events etc......yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 IIRC there was an Australian 130 in the comics a few years ago that had the rear steer done on it. think it might have had Macnamara CV's and parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Not with Landie axles - but I'm planning to go rear steer on MogLite Axles are strong enough, and they are modular, so the centre section stays the same for a front or a rear Just go a big road trip to plan to get my 2nd front axle from Lancashire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 IIRC there was an Australian 130 in the comics a few years ago that had the rear steer done on it. think it might have had Macnamara CV's and parts. IIRC it was Maxi Drive stuff using 101 CVs and special swivels. Not cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 You also get the fun and games of drift The coolest system Ive ever seen was fitted to Frazier crop sprayers (they used a modified Rover axle to give 4 wheel steering), it had a cool control system go get over the dift issue that monitored the rear axle position and constantly corrected it - it also gave the operator the option of using different steering modes Crab steer - diagonal drive accross fields (hand for really soft soft) Rear Follow - giving the tightest turning circle possible Conventional - drove like a conventional thing on a conventional day Rear Steer - Drive it like a fork lift Its an option for mouse but to solve the drift issue (without using a missle guidance system) on the road I will have the system lock off so its only there when its needed. Mogs give the easiest solution - simply change the ends of the axle and its done B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Not with Landie axles - but I'm planning to go rear steer on MogLiteAxles are strong enough, and they are modular, so the centre section stays the same for a front or a rear Just go a big road trip to plan to get my 2nd front axle from Lancashire Flinking Blip Andy!! It hasn't even seen the light of day and already you want to change it!!! I tell you, there's no pleasing some people..... Oh, and last month you said we'd get more piccies of Moglite this monh.... well, it's this month so where 're the piccies.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuzurover Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 IIRC it was Maxi Drive stuff using 101 CVs and special swivels. Not cheap! You are correct. Maxi-Drive have had a rear-steer kit on offer for a while (but it isn't cheap). It uses 101CVs, swivel balls machined from 4340 that are series LR size outside and big enough inside to clear the 101 CV. And Series swivel outers - with a custom-made disc mount (I think). Steering is via a hydraulic ram, and only works in Low Range (usually). The steering is locked in the straight-ahead position for road use. Plenty of info on how to set up the hydraulics on www.pirate4x4.com Now that longfield cro-mo CVs (and others) are around it may be possible to do a rear-steer setup using normal front axle parts. The CVs probably won't handle too much road mileage though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 You'll need uprated CVs. Standard ones aren't up to the job, you'll break them in 5 minutes. Appart from that its very do-able. Just curious as to how come they will break in 300 seconds when fitted on the rear but not when on the front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Bishbosh - I don't think the photos will be long... I saw it at the weekend, and its looking pretty complete - and pretty BLING too! Me likey. For those interested, Dollythelw's comment about Mog axles being a straight swap of the ends refers to Mog 404 axles. Sadly, not what I have... : ( Ideas seem to be filtering in from other places - States, Oz... I expect this'll become more common in the UK too. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Oh, and last month you said we'd get more piccies of Moglite this monh.... well, it's this month so where 're the piccies.... Its the 2nd already - still got 26 days to go. I promise there will be a big photo shoot/web-site re-work this month PS Rear steer has always been in the grand plan, as has nitrous But possibly not at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Andy - got some alli for you if you wanna come up at the weeeeeeeeeeeekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuzurover Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Just curious as to how come they will break in 300 seconds when fitted on the rear but not when on the front? The rear axle always sees more load/stress. This is the reason many 4x4s (even constant 4x4s) have larger rear axle (with thicker halfshafts) than the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 The rear axle always sees more load/stress. This is the reason many 4x4s (even constant 4x4s) have larger rear axle (with thicker halfshafts) than the front. I still don't see why. If it was rwd them yes, but not if 4wd drive where torque is shared equally (an assumption) between front and back. For the sale of this discussion I am also assuming a canvas top so the weight is on the front axle - steering/engine; not something heavily laden in the back. I can only guess the reason for the fatter rear axles is for load carrying. It's not a bicycel where you sit over the rear wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Weight transference when climbing slopes That would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 not forgetting moooocho long distance between diff and flange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr_wuffles Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Anybody know what sort of ram would be up to the task? Something off a JCB or a truck rear axle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Anybody know what sort of ram would be up to the task? Something off a JCB or a truck rear axle? I haven't looked at the setup for the rear yet, but for the front hydro assist its going to be a 1.75" bore ~ 8" throw Single ended - double action I think the rear will need a little more power, so maybe 2", they seem to use double ended rams Stateside, but I've not looked at it in detail yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Anybody know what sort of ram would be up to the task? Something off a JCB or a truck rear axle? A company called Steerforth Sales in Farnham are handy for rams of any spec - very cheap too. I used 2" bore with 6" throw double ended rams. Valves etc are easily sourced off scrap forklifts or commercial sweepers I've built 3 four wheel steer cars for trials - 1 with Suzuki axles, one independent suspension and the last with Volvo portals. It is useful to have an automatic re-centering system as well otherwise you spend too much time fiddling with the rear and not concentrating where you're going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuzurover Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I still don't see why. If it was rwd them yes, but not if 4wd drive where torque is shared equally (an assumption) between front and back. For the sale of this discussion I am also assuming a canvas top so the weight is on the front axle - steering/engine; not something heavily laden in the back. I can only guess the reason for the fatter rear axles is for load carrying. It's not a bicycel where you sit over the rear wheel. Moglite has the right answer. When climbing hills (or doing just about anything not on flat ground) the rear axle always sees more of the load. Look at a 1970's range rover classic they have identical diffs front and rear, and indentically-sized axles. The front diff is actally slightly weaker than the rear as it runs on the coast side of the teeth. But I know heaps of people who have broken range rover rear axles and diffs, but very few that have managed to break fronts (talking about stock or near stock vehicles here). If the load was shared equally, you would break front diffs and CVs before anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 There's also accelerating. It puts more load on the rear as weight shifts. FYI, the best test for CVs is powering out of ditches on lock. That way you've got the weight against them and at they're weakest possition (ie not dead ahead) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callum Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 ¿Habla Espanol? there's lots of good piccies here or rear steer mog axled rangie running 44's. http://www.mda4x4.com/preparaciones.htm which i presume was their testbed for thier own 4x4. you might consider it a sort of bowler on steroids, although i'm not sure it has many landie parts in the final model. http://www.mda4x4.com/8250.htm there's some videos down the bottom of it crabbing and turning tight circles and driving over huge boulders etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Steerforth are possibly the nicest people in hydraulics and seem not to have missed reading the number one rule of hydraulic sales "thow shalt rip off the customer" Double ended gives equal power to both actions, its easy to calculate the amount of power the ram will give you providing you know the working pressure of your PAS pump najw - have you still got the "pics" you did for the self centre?? I think we nattered a while ago about the ones you had on the 7.56 Volvo axles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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