P38 SLIPPED LINER????

[Somadoc]

Evening guys.

I wonder if anyone can shed some light on the series of events which have led to me wondering/ worrying if my 2000 4.0se P38 with 74k miles has slipped a liner?

The story begins with my car sporadically overheating and pressurizing the system over the last month, then running fine, then doing it again. No water loss, no cream in the oil and it ran and started perfectly.

I replaced the thermostat and viscous fan and it was okish until the temperature started fluctuating after varying lengths of drive (15-45 minutes) and eventually over heated a couple of times more. In desperation I put some Kseal in the system and it very quickly overheated (within 5 minutes) of running. Stupidly I took off the expansion tank cap too early and the engine bay got soaked. I decided to flush the stuff out and put some radiator flush in the system and let it run. After about 5 minutes, the temp gauge reached centre, I sprayed the engine bay, especially around the expansion tank with WD40 and the engine cut out!!! A warning message of "gearbox failure" momentarily popped up and I have not been able to crank the car over since. Coincidence?

I have checked all fuses and relays, checked the multi-plug underneath the expansion tank, checked the battery and decided to charge it in situ at which time the horn began to croak and then went off full blast. I have now disconnected them. I have tried re-mobilizing using the key code, generic code, disconnecting the battery.

I get no warning messages, except window set. The check engine symbol is illuminated and when I try to crank, everything dips electrically, then comes back to life. But no turning over. The car locks, the alarm works.

So, please, any ideas as to cause? Could the liner have slipped and the engine literally seized, I desperately hope not!

Many thanks, Robin.

[q-rover]

I sprayed the engine bay, especially around the expansion tank with WD40 and the engine cut out!!!

Why?

A warning message of "gearbox failure" momentarily popped up

First sign of duff battery/ alternator.

The check engine symbol is illuminated

You´ll have to read/ clear the fault codes and they may give you a clue

as to what is wrong.

It may just be a headgasket, but the fact that the engine has overheated

is never a good thing.

[Somadoc]

Thanks for the response.

I was hoping to avoid a `flatbed` visit to the main dealer for a diagnostic plug in as they have quoted a minimum of £125 just for the advice.

If the liner might have gone I could do without all the cost of transport and diagnosis. If this is the only solution then I guess that's that?

My question is, could a slipped liner have caused the engine to seize so rapidly? Is there any known fault to keep it from cranking?

And I sprayed the wet engine bay with WD to try and disperse some of the mess, wish I hadnt, (or tried the Kseal).

Regards, Robin.

[FridgeFreezer]

If the liner might have gone I could do without all the cost of transport and diagnosis.

If the liner has slipped, a flatbed taxi and a diagnostic fee will be the cheap bit.

As above, it could just be a head gasket followed by a duff battery / electrical upset. I doubt a slipped liner would cause the engine to seize - if it's cut out without any nasty noises etc. and now refuses to crank, I'd suspect the alarm/immobiliser is now unhappy about something. Does the starter click or try to engage at all, or does turning the key do nothing?

If you filled in your profile so we knew where in the world you are we may be able to offer some better advice - where to take it, how much it should be costing, etc.

[Somadoc]

Thanks FridgeFreezer.

The relay seems to click gently with the key to position 3 for cranking, but nothing else attempts to turn. The electrics dip, its as if the starter motor is stuck or the gearbox still engaged in a gear, although the selector selects appropriately.

I have tried alternative batteries hopefully with good cranking power but to no avail, also jumping it. Same thing, all lights dip, dash, gear selector and then immediately recover. Is the horn constantly firing coincidental or could this be associated with immobilization even though the alarm seems to work?

Anyway, thanks again. I live on the West Sussex/ Surrey borders near Dunsfold where `Top Gear` is filmed............noisy buggers!

I have tried a local Land Rover specialist who says he doesn't have the diagnostic gear, and you are right, the flatbed and plug in at `Harwoods Pulborough` may seem insignificant in the scheme of things.

Regards, Robin.

[H&H]

Based on what you've said, I'd guess that you have water in one (or more) cylinders, effectively 'hydro locking' your engine.

Doesn't need a lot to cause this. had the same thing myself (intermittently) a few months back - initially thought the starter was duff, but after a few repeated start attempts (the small amount of water must have forced past the rings) it would fire up followed by copious amounts of steam from the exhaust for about 15 secs - then OK.

My oil was clean but had clear water (about half a pint) drop out the sump when I removed the sump plug. There was also no mayo under the oil filler cap.

I used K seal and problem disappeared - only prolonging the inevitable though. Heads are coming off shortly for a good sort out and to remove a seized spark plug which I'm reluctant to use too much force on for fear of busting it. I'm guessing it's the problem cylinder.

In my case I'm pretty sure (hope) it's a head gasket problem, I've run for the last 6 months without any major probs - it's a 2000 4.6 with 120k.

Try removing plugs in turn (or all at once if there's water in more than 1 cyl) and try cranking the engine to see if there's water expelled from any plug port

Good luck

Geoff

[MrDiagnostic]

I did some work on a friends range rover it was over heating,it went to a garage and had the heads skimmed and new gaskets,when it came out of the garage it was still overheating.

I had a look at it changed the thermostat,still over heating,i had a spare radiator put that on ,Problem sorted...........

I would try your radiator first..

[caprice 4.6]

Have you tried turnning engine over with a spanner on the crank pully bolt to check if engines seized.

[Les Henson]

If you turn the key and the engine jerks, but doesn't turn over, then it's locked/siezed.

Les.

[Somadoc]

I have put a spanner on the bottom pulley and the engine seems to turn over.

Having taken the starter motor off, it looks knackered. Hopefully this is a clue!!! I will change tomorrow and report back. Odd it should suddenly go without warning???

Also I have a new radiator to fit............ fingers crossed.

Thanks for your help, Robin.

[caprice 4.6]

You might find the starter has jammed and been running with the engine it can be tested off the vechicle. If you need to test it put it on here and i will tell you how.

[Somadoc]

Thank you, thank you. The starter motor is knackered!!!!

I have just been out, bought a new one, fitted it and a new radiator and it has started first turn...............hooray!

Now to see if the overheating problem is sorted!

Does anyone know using the engine numbers when the newer engine which didn't slip its liners quite so often was introduced or the relevant story around the problem? Mine is a May 2000 4.0 se, is it vulnerable to a porous block?

Happy New Year and thanks again,

Robin.

[Reg]

Hi,

P38's (usually 4.6's) suffer from a cracked block behind the liner, this is hairline and needs to be tested by pressure testing the block when it is hot. There should be no way for water to get into the bore this way on a good engine as the block should keep the water away from the outside of the liner.

Usually caused by overheating especially with the engine running lean uphill towing a trailer. Sometimes the repair can be achieved by removing the liner(s) and fitting top hat liners which have a sealing rim machine on their top outside.

Prevention: fit a Tornado chip in the ECU this will stop lean mix problem, flush or replace rad & thermostat, use quality antifreeze.

Dont use a non LR experienced garage as the usual scenario will be test the block (cold) result no leakage, blame the heads, skim, refit, flush rad, change oil, new antifreeze, big bill, overheat within days.

I bought my P38 from a guy who's beloved car went thro the above sequence, so wifey said no more B***** Range Rover. Sell it on Ebay.

Suited me I wanted a good cheap car ready to fit a new RPi hand built engine.

Good luck I hope it is the head gasket.