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converting 1989 110 diesel turbo to veg oil


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Want to convert my 1989 diesel turbo csw to a two tank system...diesel & veg oil...but having problems working out how to plumb my return fuel flow....

The problem is: there is a return which comes from the injector pump & a return flow from injectors..The return from the I.P.(Injector pump) seems to go into the fuel filter... The injector return seems to go to the top of the fuel filter meets a banjo bolt ..then returns to the tank.

In my Ideal set up I would have just 1 return (like the TDI engine) but I have these 2...I need to loop it some how but can work out the best way or the implications..look at my diagram to see what my Ideal system would look like..

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS??

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I agree with most but i would stick to 8mm pipe rather than using 10mm.

It is well worth while using a heated filter for the veggie oil side otherwise the filters tend to wax easily.

Both filters should be prior to the fuel pump as you have drawn, therefore they should be the suction priming type.

I did a drawing when i converted my 200tdi ..

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopi...st=#entry273288

Yours can easily be made the same.

Also may want to see this ..

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopi...rt=#entry234087

I think i posted some pics of everything fitted under the engine bay but can't find em.

If you need to see the filters/ valves etc then let me know.

Would recommend 2xtecalemit valves rather than pollock valves.

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this engine is not a suitable candidate for this conversion.

i disagree, prior to putting a 200 in i ran the TD on a very random mix of SVO and filtered WVO for well in excess of 10K with no ill affect and i know of others who have done many more miles - clearly running a high percentage of SVO isn't going to do the IP much good at lower temps however a litre of petrol to thin the mix is all that is required

now that diesel is cheaper than veg oil i question the cost effectiveness of doing this twin tank conversion

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i disagree, prior to putting a 200 in i ran the TD on a very random mix of SVO and filtered WVO for well in excess of 10K with no ill affect and i know of others who have done many more miles - clearly running a high percentage of SVO isn't going to do the IP much good at lower temps however a litre of petrol to thin the mix is all that is required

now that diesel is cheaper than veg oil i question the cost effectiveness of doing this twin tank conversion

Depends on where ya get ya veggie oil from. I'm still only paying 55ppl, for fresh unused veggie oil, although i do buy in bulk. Last lot was 'crisp n dry' which seems to run really nicely.

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I've done quite a bit of research into it..and as long as you use a heat exchanger, heated fuel filter & two tank system the td engine can be converted to run on svo..

I've already bought all the bit's ..The only thing holding me up, is trying to work out how to plumb the return pipes from I.P. and injectors...

I need to have just 1 return through the pollak valve but as you can see on the fuel filter picture there seem to be 2 I'm confused!!

ANY IDEAS?

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i disagree, prior to putting a 200 in i ran the TD on a very random mix of SVO and filtered WVO for well in excess of 10K with no ill affect and i know of others who have done many more miles - clearly running a high percentage of SVO isn't going to do the IP much good at lower temps however a litre of petrol to thin the mix is all that is required

now that diesel is cheaper than veg oil i question the cost effectiveness of doing this twin tank conversion

Well you are lucky and stand out in a Sea of Lucas pump failures.

It is not recommended Heat exchanger or not for the engine set up in question

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Apologies, I don't normally lurk in the defender forum so didn't spot this one come up.

First, I would like to dispell the myth that veggy will kill a lucas pump. Provided the veggy and pump are hot, you will be absolutely fine. Cold veggy will kill a lucas pump - I have seen this happen. I have also run a TD engine on veggy for about 20k miles with no issues at all - in fact the design of the engine is much more suited to it than the TDi.

landrew - yes, the plumbing on this one is a little complex. The fuel system on any landy with a lucas pump is quite complex as the pump does not react well to air (it uses the fuel as hydraulic fluid to transfer forces within the pump, air screws with this) - so the tank return comes from the filter rather than straight from the pump as in a TDi.

This is how I had mine set up.

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So, working from the veg tank (the main tank) - the plumbing is standard up to the lift pump. Just beyond the lift pump you have the heat exchanger being heated with coolant. This is then supplying hot veggy to the original filter which is then returning this to the tank - this continues to circulate veg through this system even when the engine is being run on diesel. This has the advantage that when the engine is cold the veg in the filter will get hot with the engine, so when you switch over there will be hot veg straight away.

The diesel tank does not have a return - there are three reasons for this. One is quite simply to save plumbing, secondly with the return 'looped' as in the diagram, the injection pump will not need to work hard to pull fuel from the tank (note there is no lift pump on the diesel side). Thirdly, it allows the heat generated in the pump whilst warming up to stay in the pump - one of the reasons for having a tank return in a diesel is for cooling, however we want this to get hot! It won't get anywhere near dangerously hot being run like this on diesel, but it just helps warm the system up ready for the veg.

Source a diesel filter from something like a TDi. Or just go down the scrappy and have a hunt around. It makes it much neater if you find one with just one in and one out.

The valve is a standard 6 way valve (Pollack is fine, just make sure it is a genuine pollack! ATG are also good). Set it up so you get the looped return on diesel and return to filter on veg.

You may notice that the injector leak off lines stay plumbed back to the veg filter even when on diesel - this is fine. There is minimal flow down these lines, you won't move much diesel into the veg tank when running on diesel.

Bleeding the air out of the system is a PITA - I found it easiest to disconnect the return loop and place into a seperate container. Then you can run until you get no air bubbles out the end, and connect it back up. The veg side should mostly self bleed - you might get a few hiccups with air bubbles in the lines to the change over valve.

It is worth adding a small plastic cheapo filter just before the injection pump as a failsafe and so you can see if there are any air bubbles about. Use clear plastic nylon pipe too if possible - it makes diagnosing air leaks much easier.

Lastly, running veg will show up any slight air leaks or lift pump problems. Make sure your lift pump is in A+ condition (they start to wear out at 100k miles) and check all connections are good and tight. If you have air leaks, remember air will only get in when the pipe is under negative pressure. This greatly narrows down where to look - there are only a few pipes on this system that aren't pressurised.

Have you bought the parts yet? I've got an hx and ATG valves from my old system knocking around - you are welcome to them for a few beer tokens.

P.S. Properly made biodiesel will be fine in these engines. You can get some rubber degredation, but you will really only find the leak off lines go a bit funny after a few years. Exactly the same problem with a TDi and td5.

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Hi Landrew

Just been trawling the web for just the answer to the question you are asking about the returns to the filter .

I am converting my TD 90 to run on WVO after 8000 miles on a 60/40 with no problems . Except on my recent change of filter after 4000 miles I found lots of debris in the filter bowl. It was the paint from the body of the filter.

It was a UFI filter . Not sure if other makes are affected.

The OLD HAND has come up with a solution to the returns problem , Many thanks.

Will keep posted on my conversion.

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Thanks for the reassurance..I have all the bits now for the conversion...including a heated fuel filter which I was hoping to use instead of the standard one..only problem is: it only has one in & one out port! presumably I could use a T-piece connector to get around the problem??

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  • 6 months later...

Want to convert my 1989 diesel turbo csw to a two tank system...diesel & veg oil...but having problems working out how to plumb my return fuel flow....

The problem is: there is a return which comes from the injector pump & a return flow from injectors..The return from the I.P.(Injector pump) seems to go into the fuel filter... The injector return seems to go to the top of the fuel filter meets a banjo bolt ..then returns to the tank.

In my Ideal set up I would have just 1 return (like the TDI engine) but I have these 2...I need to loop it some how but can work out the best way or the implications..look at my diagram to see what my Ideal system would look like..

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS??

Hi yes, really simple. we converted a series 1 last year which has a return from the Injector pump, a return from the injectors, both of which go into the fuel filter, and an overflow return from the filter to the tank. We simply took a 'T' piece in 8mm and connected both returns into the single return which went back to the tank and blanked off the open inlet on the fuel filter. Nothing now goes back into the fuel filter, it all heads back to the tank, like my Discovery. Has been running like this for over a year with no problem.

But please be aware that when we fit twin tank conversions there are several ways to connect them, we prefer to have the return going back to the original tank, in other words, if you run on oil, the return goes to the main tank, and if you are on diesel, the return goes back to the second diesel tank. Other methods include a looped return, which we have installed, and a common return, but this means when you are on diesel, the return pumps into the main tank, meaning if you run on diesel too long, you pump the diesel into the main tank. No problem with running, but you have to keep filling the second tank, which is a pain.

Hope this helps, can do diagrams if you want

Biodave

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Sorry missed that one. Forgot that the TD has a lucas pump. :rolleyes:

Disagree. We have run several cars with Lucas pumps on veggie oil. We ran a Citroen Xantia 2.1 TDI with the Lucas Epic pump as a test car for more than 2 years and 50,000 miles filling the single tank with 100% veggie oil, winter and summer, and with fuel pre heaters prior to the fuel filter. Mind you, we do live in Cornwall where frosts are as rare as being bitten by a lettuce.

Biodave

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Disagree. We have run several cars with Lucas pumps on veggie oil. We ran a Citroen Xantia 2.1 TDI with the Lucas Epic pump as a test car for more than 2 years and 50,000 miles filling the single tank with 100% veggie oil, winter and summer, and with fuel pre heaters prior to the fuel filter. Mind you, we do live in Cornwall where frosts are as rare as being bitten by a lettuce.

Biodave

Coming late to thsi, sorry! I have a 200TDi, 125k on the clock that has done 20k on SVO with no hassles. My last batch (bought from Makros) was 65p/litre.

I have a two tank system, plumbed by myself. I support the comment about Pollack valves, buy from a UK source, my first "Pollack" came from the States and it was a right load of Pollocks lasting 4 operations! My plumbing (probably different to what you've heard already!) is as follows. Note I have an exisiting return to my fitted tank and my new diesel tank also has a return. One thing I would change is to make the diesel tank larger, mine is about 18 litres, 25 would probably be better.

I have a feed from the existing tank (now veggie) goes through a filter, through a heat exchanger then through the exsiting diesel filter to one side of the Pollack valve. A feed from the (new) diesel tank goes through a filter (scavenged from a 90 and bolted to a space on the bulkhead) and to the other side of the Pollack valve for that port. The common port for those two connections goes to the lift pump and the rest of the plumbing (on that side) remains as is. On the return side, the injector bleed goes to the other common port on the Pollack valve and the other two ports feed back to the diesel tank and the veggie tank respectively. It's important to get the returns correct otherwise you'll overfill the diesel tank with returned veggie :)

The only "extra" I have fitted is a 70degC switch from RS and a couple of relays that means after I have started the engine, when the surface of the heat exchanger reaches 70degC the switch over to veggie is automatic. I have a switch in the car that allows me to switch back at the end of the journey and a buzzer to remind me to reset it back again after I have turned the ignition off! A red/green LED on the dash tells me the status of the Pollack valve (red diesel / green veggie).

The only problem I have found in the winter is in the initial change over there is quite a slug of cold oil to get through after which it is OK. I found an electric fuel heater from Citroen that I have sited next to my veggie tank and this winter I will see if this has any effect.

Finally I would reccomend using 10mm bore where ever there is cold veggie, particularly from the veggie tank to the heater. The bigger the pipe in the cold weather the (slightly) easier the flow.

Cheers

Peter

(In Beijing where you wouldn't believe how cheap oil is!)

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