jules Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I have a mate that makes stiff for F1 cars So I don't make my self look like a tit before he makes some bits for me what is the difference between the strengths of carbon Fibre and carbon Kevlar. what is the price difference and what is the sheet price eg 1m square or 2m square for these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I have a mate that makes stiff for F1 carsSo I don't make my self look like a tit before he makes some bits for me what is the difference between the strengths of carbon Fibre and carbon Kevlar. what is the price difference and what is the sheet price eg 1m square or 2m square for these. thickness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Halfords sell rolls of sticky back carbon fibre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 what is the difference between the strengths of carbon Fibre and carbon Kevlar.what is the price difference and what is the sheet price eg 1m square or 2m square for these. It's not that simple - what's the matrix? What is the fibre angle - multiple? Does the part need uni-directional properties or what - there's just too many variables. What is he making, that'll help. As for cost - isn't he the best person to ask? Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 Halfords sell rolls of sticky back carbon fibre I have some at home which is about 1mm it would be possibly 2mm for what I need but the same job I would use 3mm Ally. Jules My wife can't lift the bridging ladders for another idea so that is why I need to know so my mate can make some bridging ladders out of one of the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 It's not that simple - what's the matrix? What is the fibre angle - multiple? Does the part need uni-directional properties or what - there's just too many variables. What is he making, that'll help. As for cost - isn't he the best person to ask?Al. It dosen't need moulding I am looking to use it for the bed as its much lighter than ally and it does not need to be that strong as the steel tube is doing all the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 As I understand it, carbon fibre is very strong in some directions but brittle in others unless you reinforce it. Kevlar has a bit more give, hence why it's good at stopping bullets. Fibre optic cables are clad in kevlar fibres, annoying stuff (like cotton wool but indestructable, gets tangled everywhere!) but damn strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 As I understand it, carbon fibre is very strong in some directions but brittle in others unless you reinforce it. Kevlar has a bit more give, hence why it's good at stopping bullets.Fibre optic cables are clad in kevlar fibres, annoying stuff (like cotton wool but indestructable, gets tangled everywhere!) but damn strong. Right so Cardon Kevlar is not a solid material so cardon fibre sheeting is the best stuff to go for I gave my carbon fiber sand ladders to Ali for his Aus trip. I do need some bridging ladders making which my mate will do but I am worried about cost as the mold has to be made from carbon fibre as well which doubles the price of materails needed. I need to use cardon as the missus can't lift the normal ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 is there much point in light weight sand ladders? If you use them in the mud, they get clogged up and pretty soon the mud will weigh much more than the ladders themselves. But I guess you know what you are doing though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 is there much point in light weight sand ladders? If you use them in the mud, they get clogged up and pretty soon the mud will weigh much more than the ladders themselves. But I guess you know what you are doing though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 is there much point in light weight sand ladders? If you use them in the mud, they get clogged up and pretty soon the mud will weigh much more than the ladders themselves.But I guess you know what you are doing though..... To a point you are correct but the average weight between 10kg -20kg then fill it with mud which is another 10kg giving a total weight of up to 30kg each that's 60kg extra on the truck but if it only weighs 2kg to start with there not dragging the truck down all the time there fixed on it and the wife does not wine at how her back hearts and I don't feel the weight on the trucks handling. See I would pay anything to stop the wife whingeing. on a event Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Jules - carbon kevlar is solid after it's been baked, just like carbon fibre. Starts life as a piece of floppy fabric type stuff, gets moulded then baked or whatever they do to it and voila, an F1 car I'd say you want the kevlar as it's got more impact resistance, rather a bridging ladder that bends than snaps. Disclaimer - I know nuffink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Jules, I have a similar contact and you will get a better price or free if they have some that is getting near it's best before date. It's still Ok but not at the margins they work to in F1. I'm still trying to pluck up the courage to make some lightweight steel wishbones and wrap them in carbon fibre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJL Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Jules - carbon kevlar is solid after it's been baked, just like carbon fibre. Starts life as a piece of floppy fabric type stuff, gets moulded then baked or whatever they do to it and voila, an F1 car I'd say you want the kevlar as it's got more impact resistance, rather a bridging ladder that bends than snaps. Disclaimer - I know nuffink Re carbon materials and aplications try directiong your questions at these people Here and ask for Rudy an old college mate of mine he's their technical sales guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 Re carbon materials and aplications try directiong your questions at these people Here and ask for Rudy an old college mate of mine he's their technical sales guy mmm they look expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 Jules, I have a similar contact and you will get a better price or free if they have some that is getting near it's best before date. It's still Ok but not at the margins they work to in F1.I'm still trying to pluck up the courage to make some lightweight steel wishbones and wrap them in carbon fibre. I have sen track cer wish bones made out of CF so it must be strong enough but its the cost of the development that worries me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I have sen track cer wish bones made out of CF so it must be strong enough but its the cost of the development that worries me. Look up the Britten racing motorcycle, an artform in Carbon Fibre: http://www.britten.co.nz/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I have sen track cer wish bones made out of CF so it must be strong enough but its the cost of the development that worries me. I had an offer to run it through the computer at the F1 place but how do you input hitting a gully at Sidbury at 40mph? That's why I thought to go for a steel subframe and wrapping it. This should be a DIY job. The latest F1 cars don't even have a joint where the wishbone attaches at the front, they just use thee flaex in a carbon strip but their not looking for much travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 I had an offer to run it through the computer at the F1 place but how do you input hitting a gully at Sidbury at 40mph?That's why I thought to go for a steel subframe and wrapping it. This should be a DIY job. The latest F1 cars don't even have a joint where the wishbone attaches at the front, they just use thee flaex in a carbon strip but their not looking for much travel. Yer look at the Dakar trucks the whole body is carbon fibre but the frame is still steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I had an offer to run it through the computer at the F1 place but how do you input hitting a gully at Sidbury at 40mph? Same way you simulate an F1 hitting a wall - Finite Element, or some other, more interesting, methods... I used to have 'most of' a carbon fibre chassis from an ex-F1 car in a large cardboard box under my desk at work (previous job) - ouch! It was pretty interesting (and light!) and trying to re-create the impacts was also interesting... I would question the point of wrapping steel in fibre for the arms of a serious off-roader, but hey, give it a whirl. I think in the end you'll figure that while the idea is nice, there just isn't enough justification for saving a little bit of weight on an offroader with respect to the cost and the weight penalty of other alternatives. For example the rear tub floor of a series truck is pretty light and does the job. Depends on the budget I guess. Like the waffles - in use a massive proportion of the mass is from wet mud being caked in. You'd be better off coming up with a design that had less capacity for mud-storage than all those little squares. Even if the item itself weight slightly more? Just a thought. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Like a carbon fibre waffle with carbon fibre sheets top and bottom, with some surface texture to provide grip. Could have a one or two holes right through for mounting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Perhaps laminated honeycomb construction with a grippy texture on the faces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Perhaps laminated honeycomb construction with a grippy texture on the faces? Yes either idea sounds good. Nice one Fridge - that stuff is SERIOUSLY light (it's something silly like 98% air), then just bond a few lumpy bits on. That's the idea. Or get gym membership for your wife... Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minivin Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Problem with Honeycomb is that if you drop something heavy on it, the internal structure is heavily damaged and severely reduces it's capabilities, the stuff is used as the floor boards in most aircraft and once the possiblity that it may have been damaged is concluded, the fllor board is taken out and scrapped as you can't repair it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 Same way you simulate an F1 hitting a wall - Finite Element, or some other, more interesting, methods... I used to have 'most of' a carbon fibre chassis from an ex-F1 car in a large cardboard box under my desk at work (previous job) - ouch! It was pretty interesting (and light!) and trying to re-create the impacts was also interesting...I would question the point of wrapping steel in fibre for the arms of a serious off-roader, but hey, give it a whirl. I think in the end you'll figure that while the idea is nice, there just isn't enough justification for saving a little bit of weight on an offroader with respect to the cost and the weight penalty of other alternatives. For example the rear tub floor of a series truck is pretty light and does the job. Depends on the budget I guess. Like the waffles - in use a massive proportion of the mass is from wet mud being caked in. You'd be better off coming up with a design that had less capacity for mud-storage than all those little squares. Even if the item itself weight slightly more? Just a thought. Al. i was not looking at the waffle design more the Ally bridging ladders Mantec style pressed ones which would be very simple to make a mold for. the wife can't lift a pair of ladders at present before there full of mud so your argument is fundamentally floored they need to be lighter full stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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