Help With Decision

[SolihullBeast]

Having almost finished my A-levels i can now devote some long awaited time to my 110 which has been sitting in the farm! I'll get straight to the point, It requires the engine to be changed as the old one has given up the ghost after many happy working years. I am in two minds about which engine to replace the old one with, I have been told by a knowledgeable friend that 200/300 tdi is the way to go. The vehicle will only really be used for off road work, playing around in the fields and occasional road driving. It is for this reason I am tempted by a V8, I am told they are relatively cheap to find second hand and can be converted to fit defenders easily and would prove better off road. Any suggestions as to which would be the best choice, the old engine was a 2.5 n/a diesel and was very sluggish.Is there anything else i need to take into consideration? Sorry if this question is asked alot, I would be grateful for any opinions as i know most users of the forum have alot of experience.

Cheers

Sam

[timmymac]

i have a diesel in my bobtail but it is being changed to a v8 if it was my every day vehicle i would stay with a diesel.as you have said you will get more power from the v8 plus they sound great so that would be my choice.

yes they can be found quite cheap but i would read all the threads on v8s so you no what to look for

[western]

if you stick with a diesel engine & fit a Discovery or Defender 200Tdi, it's been done loads of times & tons of info & photo's & experience within the membership to ask for assistance/information.

changing to a petrol will involve more work & may require a VIC & paperwork/reciepts for the V8 by DVLA before they will change the V5 details.

in the end intirely up to your choice which wat to fall.

[jason110]

i was in a similar position to yourself sam, that is with a 110, and finishing my A-levels etc!

i changed the engine out from the old 2.5 N/A lump and put in a disco 200tdi, it wasnt too hard to put in and mentioned above there is loads and loads of information on this forum.

the driveability of the vehicle has changed completely and my 110 now goes like stink, well as compared to previous form.

so if your can get a 200tdi go for it, the changeover is relatively simple, the most difficult bit i found was connecting up the intercooler/turbo and rad due to the different pipe positions but other than that it pretty much just all goes together quite easily.

cant comment on a V8, ive never driven one!

either way tdi or V8 have fun

HTH

jase

[Mo Murphy]

Put a Tdi in it, lots about (so cheap) and easy to do. V8s are wonderful off and on road but are susceptible to water and getting over this is neither as simple or as easy and cheap as some would have you believe.

HTH

Mo

[nas90]

Having almost finished my A-levels i can now devote some long awaited time to my 110 which has been sitting in the farm! I'll get straight to the point, It requires the engine to be changed as the old one has given up the ghost after many happy working years. I am in two minds about which engine to replace the old one with, I have been told by a knowledgeable friend that 200/300 tdi is the way to go. The vehicle will only really be used for off road work, playing around in the fields and occasional road driving. It is for this reason I am tempted by a V8, I am told they are relatively cheap to find second hand and can be converted to fit defenders easily and would prove better off road. Any suggestions as to which would be the best choice, the old engine was a 2.5 n/a diesel and was very sluggish.Is there anything else i need to take into consideration? Sorry if this question is asked alot, I would be grateful for any opinions as i know most users of the forum have alot of experience.

Cheers

Sam

If you go with a V8 then the fuel tank and lines will be set-up for diesel and in all probability the tank will need a good internal clean.

If you get a V8 be very careful with 3.9 / 4.2 / 4.6 engines with high mileage and without top hat liners. When LR increased the capacity from 3.5 they bored the crankcase and fitted bigger diameter liners. After high mileage the crankcase will crack and coolant will pass by the liner into one or more combustion chambers. It is always a case that it will happen; just chance when..................

Go here for some info http://turner-engineering.co.uk/html/V8enginesreman.html

My 3.9 went to Turner at 110,000 miles

[SolihullBeast]

Thanks for all the advice very helpful and much appreciated, i have a few more questions based on what has been said,

1. Will the water succeptability of a v8 be an issue if i'm not planning to do any wading?

2. Is it difficult to find low milage v8's and are they expensive?

3. Is there a huge difference in power between my old 2.5 n/a and a tdi?

Cheers

Sam

[jason110]

3. Is there a huge difference in power between my old 2.5 n/a and a tdi?

in short yes!

before i changed engines, i would struggle up hills, not tow to well and generally just wasnt as pleasant to drive as she is now. now its relatively quick for a landy and once the turbo starting spinning, it will sit there quite nicely all day long

if had heard earlier about changing engines i would have done it, with the 200tdi in now, my landy has been given a new lease of life.

jase

[SolihullBeast]

in short yes!

before i changed engines, i would struggle up hills, not tow to well and generally just wasnt as pleasant to drive as she is now. now its relatively quick for a landy and once the turbo starting spinning, it will sit there quite nicely all day long

if had heard earlier about changing engines i would have done it, with the 200tdi in now, my landy has been given a new lease of life.

jase

Cheers for the advice Jason, I have also been told that the tdi engines are much more reliable that v8's and now that i know there will be a boost in power compared to the old n/a i think making the decision will be easier, a v8 sounds like alot of risk/hassle! Thanks for the input, i'll keep an eye out ofr a tdi engine

[FridgeFreezer]

V8 can be made as waterproof as a TD with a bit of fiddling, or as standard with genuine ignition parts they will go bonnet deep for short dunks happily enough.

V8's, even low mileage, are cheaper and more readily available than TDi's - you can buy a complete MOT failed V8 range rover for a couple of hundred quid tops.

[Chicken Drumstick]

Having almost finished my A-levels i can now devote some long awaited time to my 110 which has been sitting in the farm! I'll get straight to the point, It requires the engine to be changed as the old one has given up the ghost after many happy working years. I am in two minds about which engine to replace the old one with, I have been told by a knowledgeable friend that 200/300 tdi is the way to go. The vehicle will only really be used for off road work, playing around in the fields and occasional road driving. It is for this reason I am tempted by a V8, I am told they are relatively cheap to find second hand and can be converted to fit defenders easily and would prove better off road. Any suggestions as to which would be the best choice, the old engine was a 2.5 n/a diesel and was very sluggish.Is there anything else i need to take into consideration? Sorry if this question is asked alot, I would be grateful for any opinions as i know most users of the forum have alot of experience.

Cheers

Sam

Depends on what you want from it. A V8 is a nice way to go and will sound great but it does have it's downsides.

Mostly running costs, if you go carb expect 12-15mpg no matter what you do, EFI (Megasquirt) should see better mpg, but if you are averaging more than 18mpg then there would have been no point fitting a V8 as you evidently wouldn't be using in the proper fashion, if you know what I mean

Personally I'd say go for a diesel. A 200/300Tdi is pretty cheap now and with a few tweaks will run more power and torque than a 3.5 V8 and not be far behind a 3.9/4.0 RV8 (and arguably drive better). You'll also see 25-35mpg and will be better in the water.

I also quite like the sound the diesels make too. I've got a tweaked 200Tdi in my Disco, it should be making around 150bhp/260 lb ft compared to 134bhp/187lb ft for a low CR 3.5 V8.

If you have the money and ability your best bet would be a TD5 though. Fantastic engine and should be an easy swap into a 110. Ok they only have 122bhp/137bhp (Def/Disco) stock, but a few tweaks and your talking 200bhp+

TD5!!!

Only other oddball option would be a modern V8 like a Chevy LS, minimal of 350bhp. But this will be a lot more work and require tranny and drivetrain upgrades.

[Chicken Drumstick]

Thanks for all the advice very helpful and much appreciated, i have a few more questions based on what has been said,

1. Will the water succeptability of a v8 be an issue if i'm not planning to do any wading?

It might be or it might not. Some people have lots of trouble and some don't have any. Diesels never really seem to have a problem though. However if you're not going to wade in deep water, don't let this be the decider for you.

2. Is it difficult to find low milage v8's and are they expensive?

There are lots of V8's about, but they always seem more expensive to me. You can buy a Tdi off Ebay for £350, most V8's seem to be around £500. You could buy an entire vehicle with either engine in for £300-500 pounds though (MOT failed RR or Disco).

3. Is there a huge difference in power between my old 2.5 n/a and a tdi?

Cheers

Sam

Yes. A 2.5d has 67bhp and 100lb ft, a 200Tdi has 107/111bhp and ~195lb ft (Disco has slightly more power). However with a tweak of the injector pump you can get it drive a lot lot better. If you add a big intercooler to it its a whole different ball game. Up to around 70mph my modded 200Tdi Disco manual would give an auto 3.9 RR a could run for its money.

BTW - I've driven a few V8 Landy's, they are good and fun but a Tdi offers 90% of the ability with nearly double the economy.

The TD5 just makes the V8 look out dated (which it is) and will easily out perform a V8 or match it, even a 4.6

PS - I actually love the RV8, I have 3.5 making around 220-230bhp in a sports car. But I see the benefit of diesel engines in a Landy. Now if the Jaguar AJ8 DOHC engine was eaiser to get working without the rest of the car it came out of, then it would be a great option, sadly I don't think it's really that viable yet.

[Outdoor Ed]

ooh I think I will have to add my bit to this:

You say your not going to do in any deep wading, but your planning to use the vehicle mainly off road, are you sure you will be able to resist?

yes the V8's are nice, but although you may be able to pick up an engine cheaper than a tdi, you also a fairly good chance that you may have to change the fuel tank and fuel lines etc. and you would just have to get a bigger bore exhaust!

Tdi's are more reliable, will get better mpg, won't suffer any issues if you get excited and get stuck on the "just one" deep wade that you are tempted into and you will have to change less or sort things in terms of fuel tanks etc.

To add another suggestion into the mix, although they can be tricky to get hold of have you considered moving away from the Land Rover engine and popping something like the Isuzu 2.8 or 3.1 TD engine in, they are WAY more reliable than any Land Rover engine and you will get much better mpg out of it and they have a certain sound to them that it really quite nice for a diesel.

Yes you have the extra hassle and expense of conversion kits etc. but it is very much worth it

[Chicken Drumstick]

To add another suggestion into the mix, although they can be tricky to get hold of have you considered moving away from the Land Rover engine and popping something like the Isuzu 2.8 or 3.1 TD engine in, they are WAY more reliable than any Land Rover engine and you will get much better mpg out of it and they have a certain sound to them that it really quite nice for a diesel.

Yes you have the extra hassle and expense of conversion kits etc. but it is very much worth it

Afraid I don't know much about these engines. Are they really worth the hassle when compared to a TD5? What sort of hp/torque do they produce and who makes conversion kits for them?

Thanks

[gsmajd4x4]

Am I the only one who thinks that a 200 TDi sounds so much more 'Land Rover' than a V8???? B)

If you go TD5, then there's a whole heap of electronics you have to take too!

[Outdoor Ed]

Afraid I don't know much about these engines. Are they really worth the hassle when compared to a TD5? What sort of hp/torque do they produce and who makes conversion kits for them?

Thanks

Well I think so! I have one of the 2.8td's in my 90. I am very pleased with it I generally get around the 35mpg as a general running around figure, I have come close to 40mpg on a good run on occasions. I don't have the glow-plugs attached as they annoyingly are 6v ones? Not that I have ever had a problem starting it even at -10

hp wise for the standard 2.8td I think it is 110-115hp. torque, I'm not sure I'm afraid.

The conversion kits will cost you about £350-£400 and are available from Steve Parker Land Rovers in Rochdale.

it will run quite happy on Veg oil or Bio-diesel too, I tend to run mine on Bio and she runs a dream.

I would suggest making your own exhaust for it, the conversion pieces available are ok, but a custom exhaust is better, I'm just in the process of fitting a 2.5" straight though stainless system on mine.

get a nice big airbox and tweek the fuel pump a little and it will fly and pull like a train.

I am still pondering the idea of fitting an intercooler to mine, although I'm going to wait and see what the new exhaust does to the performance.

Helpful?

personally I think if you can find an engine for a good price, then it is well worth the effort of putting it in.

[stuck]

IMHO,

Do you care about MPG?

If the answer is no V8

If the answer is yes go diesel

Both have benefits and limitations.

[Rich_P]

Didn't NA built vehicles have a different ratio transfer box fitted to them compared to the TD and TDi vehicles?

[FridgeFreezer]

I'd strongly disagree with the idea that TDi's are more reliable than V8's - V8's suffer electrical issues usually down to cr*p ignition parts but TDi's seem to do cam belts, head gaskets, water pumps and oil seals with far greater regularity and overall expense. I reckon that for a plaything although a TDi saves you fuel it actually makes it all up again in parts unless you do some proper mileage in it.

The 2.8 Isuzu lump blows LR TDi's away, the 3.1's are OK but seem to suffer cooling issues that very quickly turn into head gasket issues and then a new head.

Ultimately though you will never find agreement on which engine is better because everyone is different, everyone's truck is different and everyone likes different things...

[Chicken Drumstick]

Am I the only one who thinks that a 200 TDi sounds so much more 'Land Rover' than a V8???? B)

I know what you mean, but yes in a way you are.

The V8 has been in Landy's since 1970 in the Range Rover, 79 in the Stage 1 and all thru the 80's in the 90/110. Not too mention others such as the 101.

Also in some markets (USA) the V8 has been the only engine available in RR's. Disco's and Defenders.

[Chicken Drumstick]

Didn't NA built vehicles have a different ratio transfer box fitted to them compared to the TD and TDi vehicles?

Factory V8 90/110 models use the LT85 box, its a tad stronger but not as nice. A good LT77S or R380 for most people will be as good. RR and Disco V8 only ever used the LT77 or R380 (except early RR that had Lt95 4 speeder). Gearing is similar and diff gears are all the same.