PeterR Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I'm about to rewire my winches and was wondering what the consensus was on the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldy Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I'm about to rewire my winches and was wondering what the consensus was on the above. CRIMP everytime ... And before any body asks ..40 yrs as qualified marine/auto electrician.. Solder can and will crack under certain stress situations, if you have not got a crimper...hire beg borrow or even make a jig and do it with a hammer Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I'm with Chris, Have seen so many solder joints fail! As the man said, beg, steel or borrow a hydraulic crimper! Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterR Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 Should be able to borrow a crimper from the local electrical wholesalers. I posed the question having seen the woefully inadequate crimping on my spendyish 35mm jump leads. I was thinking that I might solder those over the crimping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Crimp, and do it properly, not monkeying around whacking pliers with club hammers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Like I have and for the record all the ones I have done are still functioning as required none have gone up in flames. Needs must when you have nothing else to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Both... Crimp first and then solder (never the other way around !) The solder will improve the electrical connection and also reduce/remove any problems with corrosion. You should never crimp a soldered joint as the solder will creep under the pressure and the crimp will come loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SacredDog Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Both... Crimp first and then solder (never the other way around !) The solder will improve the electrical connection and also reduce/remove any problems with corrosion. You should never crimp a soldered joint as the solder will creep under the pressure and the crimp will come loose. I agree with the Crimp first then Solder theory. The Crimp will give a good mechanical joint and the solder will improve the electrical contact (increases the contact area). The solder will also fill up all the little voids between the strands to keep out moisture. Colin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Just in the process of re-wiring the Huskey at the moment and have opted for the "Both" method. Didn't have access to proper crimpers so used my mates home made "special tool" which actually gives a very good crimp . We then filled up the plug with solder to stop nasty poo and muck getting into gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 You should not solder any wiring on a motor vehicle as the solid solder plug will not allow the wire to flex under the vehicle vibration. The wire strands will start to fracture one by one. First thing I was taught at college 36 years ago. Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Wightman Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Once again the forum does a cracking job A question is asked. An answer is given. A contradictory answer is given. The original asker is none the wiser! When will people who don't KNOW resist the temptation to guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 How do people who don't know know they don't know? they are putting forward their opinion. plus exactly who is to say what's right. I'm very happy with mine and can see the advantage of a proper crimper, but I don't have one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Well, Whichever you do I have used glue filled RED & Black (+/-) heatshrink on the finished jobbie (mine are crimped) and using the glue type heatshrink seems to help keep corrosion and debris out, and makes less sparky metal bits showing and thus available for those "Eeeek Arrgh" shorts when working near them and if you use all same colour welding earth wire - ie black, helps show +/ - for when it was a while ago and your stuck for what goes where When I had an leccy winch I also used other colours so as to have a colour per terminal which was then written down FWIW the proper crimpers do a superb job but they do cost Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Wightman Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 How do people who don't know know they don't know? So true Tony, I suppose it's a fact of life but for those who DO know it's frustrating. If I find I can fit each wheel on my vehicle with only two wheel nuts does that make it OK? Who is qualified to say I need 5? I would advise the original poster to search the internet for a second opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 My Husky's main cables are Crimped, never had any problems with them. I have read the crimp/solder before, as crimped electrical connections [including the main power feeds] are good enough for aircraft that have a load more vibrations of various frequencies then crimped is fine for my LR & winch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robhybrid Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I have soldered wires on vehicles in the past and have had them fail due to fracture within 2 years of me doing what I thought was a good quality repair.(fact) That heat shrink that has a a low melt glue inside it is excellent stuff all the winch cables that Gwyn Lewis makes up are treated to some of this stuff.(opinion) Gwyn only seems to be able to get hold of it in black at a reasonable price though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterR Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 Well, thanks for all the replies, fact, opinion or otherwise Now have 50mm2 crimps and the loan of 10mm2 to 120mm2 crimper from my local wholesaler. Will set to tommorrow evening. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 So true Tony, I suppose it's a fact of life but for those who DO know it's frustrating.If I find I can fit each wheel on my vehicle with only two wheel nuts does that make it OK? Who is qualified to say I need 5? I would advise the original poster to search the internet for a second opinion. 5 studs may be the giveaway What is your take on the method or connecting the cables people will be interested in your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Wightman Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 How many wire connections are soldered in automotive wiring looms? The ideal is a crimped connector with support from insulation in the form of heat shrink, terminal insulator or rubber boot. The crimp internal diameter reduction onto the conductor is gradual, ie a radius. Solder provides an instant transition from solid (solder) to conductor (cable) which is a stress point under vibration and movement. This stress can be reduced on a solder joint with insulation and/or mechanical support. As far as conductivity is concerned a correctly crimped connector will perform as well as a soldered joint. Other views:- HERE HERE HERE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Car wiring looms are designed to last then lifetime of the vehicle without maintenance or inspection. Who says that a soldered joint is not better in an application where it is subject to lots of 'weather'/'elements' but where it is examined and repaired/replaced regularly? Engines in F1 are very different beasts to engines in Mondeos. Both do the same job in very different environments where one has to last a couple of hours and one 20 years. Horses for courses. This is not to suggest I have any idea whether crimping or soldering is best, just sticking my oar in. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Glad I (white90 method©)crimped mine and used insulation to cover the joint. Bluddy solder who'd use that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Once again the forum does a cracking job A question is asked. An answer is given. A contradictory answer is given. The original asker is none the wiser! When will people who don't KNOW resist the temptation to guess. Hopefully everyone is answering from their own personal experience, there is no wrong answer, there is no right answer but everyone has their own experiences and learns from it. All anyone can do on a forum such as this is read all the replies and make their own mind up. Still, at least he didn't ask if he should use one shot or oil in his swivels I have had problems in the past with crimp only joints on winch wires corroding and increasing their resistance and on a 12v winch any resistance reduces the effectiveness of your winch dramatically. My first winch was fitted with crimp only joints and after a year of competition the joints had to be remade as I was getting a voltage drop across some of them. As a solution to these corrosion/connection issues I started soldering the joints after I crimped them and have never had a joint fail or go high resistance in the 7 years of winching competition since. Vibration shouldn't be an issue on winch cables because they'll be securely clipped/tied to the vehicle anyway. That applies to crimp only as well. I also heat shrink the ends afterwards. For joints in "normal" auto wiring I use solder and heat shrink as I've never had a soldered joint fail on me. The heat shrink is important though as it supports the joint and the wires at both ends preventing vibration at the joint itself. A soldered joint should never be expected to support a mechanical joint on it's own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Wightman Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I have had problems in the past with crimp only joints on winch wires corroding and increasing their resistance and on a 12v winch any resistance reduces the effectiveness of your winch dramatically. My first winch was fitted with crimp only joints and after a year of competition the joints had to be remade as I was getting a voltage drop across some of them. As a solution to these corrosion/connection issues I started soldering the joints after I crimped them and have never had a joint fail or go high resistance in the 7 years of winching competition since So long as the failed crimp joints were crimped correctly in the first then soldering was the solution. Obviously there is no definitive answer so do what feels good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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