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Megasquirting your V8 - But with MS2 NOT MS1 V3 029v


evo828

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I was aware that in running MSII I would be in the minority.

I suppose the lack of answers to my questions demonstrates the magnitude of my crime.

Steve

Steve - I can send you the msq for MSII Extra with 2.0.1 firmware. Engine is 3.9 with Autobox. VE tuned with wideband. I am not able to post it here for some reason (tried msq, zip or vex).

basicsettings.jpg

Igntable.jpg

AFRtable.jpg

vetable.jpg

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Have tried to start the Dakar with MS.

It is firing or should that be backfiring and it stutters as if the timing is way advanced.

Is there any way to test the timing without running the engine?

Steve

Edit....just found I've wired my coil packs back to front so that is why it won't run but the question is still valid.

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So if I fix the timing as above will I see TDC with the light or the 10 degree built into EDIS.

I assume when I have it running then the timing light should match what is showing on the gauge in Megatune.

Had a troll through the thread but cannot find a spark gap recommendation. I assume with the Ford coil packs I can run something like 40 or 45 thou.

Other threads ahve mentioned the importance of the plug type on the RV8 but is that still true with EDIS or is it not as important.

Steve

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Steve,

The fixed timing will be what you see at the crank, if you set it to 0 you will (should) see TDC. I think the trim angle is 10 as default to compensate for the EDIS offset, so my value of 8 means I was 2deg out.

Just to confuse things the gauge in MegaTune displays the timing word MS sends to the EDIS (so angle + trim angle), not the actual timing. You can modify the MegaTune.ini file for your car to make a gauge that displays the correct timing, if you work it out please post back as I haven't had time to do it yet.

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In MegaTune you can right-click on a gauge and choose something else for it to read - you can choose basically anything that the ECU or software "knows" the value of, so it can be anything from a temperature to a single status bit. You can also define basic code to make your own gauges (for example someone made a realtime BHP & torque gauge using wideband O2 readings & some maths) so it should be a relatively easy one to make a gauge that reads something like "advance minus offset".

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Going back to the temperature sensor calibration.

I am using the original 3.9 coolant sensor and a Ford inlet air temp sensor.

The reason for the Ford is that I found it at the breakers installed in a short plastic hose joiner which now fits perfectly in the hose between filter and throttle body. My filter and the sensor now live under the front wing so I'm hoping this may reduce the risk of heat soak.

I calibrated both together in the freezer, at room temp & in a pan of boiling water. The comparison was against a laboratory thermometer.

The resistance readings for each of the temperatures are then used in the Megatune wizard which generates the required files.

When I plugged the ECU into the car for the first time both readings were exactly the same and matched the lab thermometer that I had left laying on the top of the engine overnight.

Steve

PS Thanks guys for putting this thread up. Next challenge is to decide where to post each subsequent question.

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A quick one because I've just made the screenshot - this is how to set MegaTune up to work correctly with different MegaSquirt ECU's & firmware versions:

Choose File -> Configurator (just under datalog here)

menu_file_datalog.png

Then choose the settings file you're using (default is "car1", you can have one for each car :P ) and expand the menu down:

Here's a screenshot of my settings - configuring for the 109 ("Eddie") and choosing the firmware for MS-1 Extra, so you guys would need to choose Bowling & Grippo MS-II:

configurator.png

As you can see you can also choose things like the idle control, type of lambda sensor, whether the display is in degrees C or not, etc. (usually you just leave these well alone!)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi all

Having a bad day, well two days actually.

Had the car running OK on MS2 and was progressively tuning it.

I found that idle was an issue as it slowed when at a standstill in drive (autobox) and would then stall if the fans kicked in. I could fix this if I accepted near 1000rpm with everything disengaged.

The solution would be the idle control in MS2-extra so I loaded that seemingly without issue but now MS is not running and I cannot communicate with it. I have tried several times.

This evening I have re-loaded standard MS2 which again seemed to communicate and load without issue but again MS will not run. It has no lights on the MS and just the IGN light on the stim.

To load the standard MS2 I used the loader.exe which is supposed to do everything by itself and did not report any problems.

I've run out of ideas. Help.

Steve

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Well my cry for help worked.

Checked the download again and studied it closely and found right at the beginning failed to communicate. Then again right at the end. All the rest of the 2 pages of file burn and such was obviously not connecting.

Checked with hyperterm that the cable was OK. pulled the processor and linked pins 12 & 13 and proved that the coms circuits were all OK.

Put the processor back in and all seems to be working.

Have to assume the original firmware is still in there. Is there any way to interrogator it?

Steve

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Going to have to give up on Extra.

Have tried another four times to load it without success. Every time I try I end up with all communication to the processor locked and can only free it by taking the processor out of MS and running Hyperterm.

Pity as I rather liked the idea of the idle control.

Steve

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This is one of the reasons I recommend people stick with MS1, MS2 is really a more experimental thing to develop stuff that will end up in MS3, and as such it's not quite as mature or robust as the MS1 code.

I'd try posting on the MS2 forums to see if others have the same problem, it can often be a bug in either the firmware or the loader.

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Steve - are you using the firmware loader that is included in MSII/E the firmware package? As you go from non-Extra to extra - there is a jumper that needs to be plugged somewhere - please read the instruction in the MSextra package carefully. I had MSII/E already in the box, but when I was upgrading to a newer version - it worked automatically with no issues.

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........I'd try posting on the MS2 forums to see if others have the same problem, it can often be a bug in either the firmware or the loader.

Have posted on the MS2Extra forum but seem to have joined a rather large number of posters who don't get answered.

I have read and reread the instructions many times and believe I am doing it right including setting the boot jumper but just end up with the whole thing locked up.

Steve

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MSExtra forums have come up with a fix so I now have Extra loaded.

Have to start tuning all over again now.

Main thing will be the closed loop idle which hopefully will solve the problem of stalling when the fans kick in while sitting in drive.

Steve

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Be interesting to see how this pans out as I'm currently trying to decide if the next 3.9 I do should be MS1 or MS2. Tempted to go for MS2 as MS1 seems to have ceased progress, particularly with good reports about the closed loop idle control.

Anyone running without EDIS btw ?

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Have posted on the MS2Extra forum but seem to have joined a rather large number of posters who don't get answered.

I have read and reread the instructions many times and believe I am doing it right including setting the boot jumper but just end up with the whole thing locked up.

Hi Steve, what was the fix ?

I had no problems to change to the MS2x firmware. Boot jumper needed to be attached, but I´ve been told that´s only necessary for the fist time resp. when changing from MS2-standard code (which I was doing).

I followed the steps there:

http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_...n.htm#install_f

(found in the conversion-to-MS2x-manual there: http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/#conver )

it was the "download-MS2-firmware.bat" file that needed to be run.

AFAICS the MS2extra code will get into a release for the latest code version (2.1.0) soon.

But looking at: http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_...al.htm#features

it seems like the extra-code for MS2 will not offer many more options over MS1extra, except better resolution of the bin-values.

If working with stepper-IAC then there´s no way around the MS2extra in code version 2.1.0 (best choice is beta 20090327) as all predecessors (of the extra code and B&G code) have problems in controlling the stepper.

I think that makes the biggest difference.

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It would seem the problem is with my laptop.

You get to the stage where you switch off MS, remove the jumper and switch MS back on again (step 6).

It would seem that some PCs/laptops have a small voltage on the COM port which prevents MS doing the reset after boot jump so it hangs.

Fix is to disconnect the data cable before switching MS back on then reconnect and continue.

Steve

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  • 2 months later...
Anyone running without EDIS btw ?

I am running MS2 Extra with 4 fairchild transistors in the lid of my MS. Started with fuel only with no real problems, the only problem I had was a few times in a half hour drive the MAPdot glitching negative values causing the MS to go into deccel which was set to 70% in AE, setting this to 100% cured the effect.

Since connecting for wasted spark I now have RPM dips to 0 momentarily causing the MS to log engine not running which turns off the spark, this happens at around 1500rpm and at idle, was happening at every pull away. Changing the coil dwell from 3ms to 2ms has helped reduce this to 2 or 3 events in a half hour drive. I think this is obviously interferance from the coils and the fact that I just closed up the plug leads and jammed them into the Ford coils is probably why.

My MS won't run my fuel relay from the Fuel pin or the Fidle pin so this is on a switch for now. Also, I now loose data in Megatune like required fuel, injections per cycle and an AFR table bucket value is always 0.2 when I open the table, but it all runs as it should.

IAC (CLT) control in the end annoyed me so much I unplugged it (loosing steps and odd idle speeds).

I have a 3.9 auto and set the idle with the allen screw at the throttle body, idles at 900 in neutral and 700 in gear and needs a bit of throttle from cold for a minute or so.

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  • 3 months later...

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