NicTheOrange90 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I dont want to start a series of outbursts on why, but I see that quite a few forum members seem to have yellow flashing lights on the roof of their Defenders. I know the law tend to turn blind eye to this sort of thing as they probably have other more pressing engagements, but in my opinion you need to be a bon-fide breakdown vehicle to have them fitted... The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 say; ....amber light from a warning beacon fitted to- (i) a road clearance vehicle;(ii) a vehicle constructed or adapted for the purpose of collecting refuse;(iii) a breakdown vehicle;(iv) a vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph or any trailer drawn by such a vehicle;(v) a vehicle having an overall width (including any load) exceeding 2.9 m;(vi) a vehicle used for the purposes of testing, maintaining, improving, cleansing or watering roads or for any purpose incidental to any such use;(vii) a vehicle used for the purpose of inspecting, cleansing, maintaining, adjusting, renewing or installing any apparatus which is in, on, under or over a road, or for any purpose incidental to any such use;(viii) a vehicle used for or in connection with any purpose for which it is authorised to be used on roads by an order under section 44 of the Act;(ix) a vehicle used for escort purposes when travelling at a speed not exceeding 25 mph;(x) a vehicle used by the Commissioners of Customs and Excise for the purpose of testing fuels;(xi) a vehicle used for the purpose of surveying;(xii) a vehicle used for the removal or immobilisation of vehicles in exercise of a statutory power or duty; I would expect anyone suggesting that they had them fitted for vehicle recovery purposes to have adequate business insurance allowing them to partake in such work, and if they didn't they might be comitting offences under such regulations, and might invalidate their insurance. In these days of Pizza delivery drivers being pulled to check they have business insurance by the law, I would suggest that we all take a moment to look at our trucks and consider how legal they might be... The full act is here Just wanted to have an open discussion, and am not in anyway passing judgment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 As this could apply to any Land Rover I'm moving this to the International. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluespanner Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 There must be a difference between having them fitted and having them switched on. yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstone Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 As this could apply to any Land Rover I'm moving this to the International. im a police officer and this has been covered by the traffic unit a few times before. there are exceptions to the list of people listed. they are as follows: 1. they are on private property. 2. they are towing a vehicle UNDER 30 mph. 3. they are alerting other members of the public to a hazard in the road (i.e. car crash, tree in road etc.) 4. they are working something like a festival and they are moving through a crowd of people. HOWEVER, it is illegal to have your amber light attached to a power source, REGARDLESS if its on or not if you are not a professional listed already. if in doubt, ask your local police force or the dvla. calum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 say;....amber light from a warning beacon fitted to- (i) a road clearance vehicle; (ii) a vehicle constructed or adapted for the purpose of collecting refuse; (iii) a breakdown vehicle; (iv) a vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph or any trailer drawn by such a vehicle; (v) a vehicle having an overall width (including any load) exceeding 2.9 m; (vi) a vehicle used for the purposes of testing, maintaining, improving, cleansing or watering roads or for any purpose incidental to any such use; (vii) a vehicle used for the purpose of inspecting, cleansing, maintaining, adjusting, renewing or installing any apparatus which is in, on, under or over a road, or for any purpose incidental to any such use; (viii) a vehicle used for or in connection with any purpose for which it is authorised to be used on roads by an order under section 44 of the Act; (ix) a vehicle used for escort purposes when travelling at a speed not exceeding 25 mph; (x) a vehicle used by the Commissioners of Customs and Excise for the purpose of testing fuels; (xi) a vehicle used for the purpose of surveying; (xii) a vehicle used for the removal or immobilisation of vehicles in exercise of a statutory power or duty;[/u].... Many of us have cleared green lanes in order to pass... There must be a difference between having them fitted and having them switched on. yes? No, the whole section from the above act reads:- (2) No vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which is capable of showing any light to the rear, other than a red light, except- (a) amber light from a direction indicator or side marker lamp; (B) white light from a reversing lamp; © white light from a work lamp; (d) light to illuminate the interior of a vehicle; (e) light from an illuminated rear registration plate; (f) light for the purposes of illuminating a taxi meter; (g) in the case of a bus, light for the purposes of illuminating a route indicator; (h) blue light and white light from a chequered domed lamp fitted to a police control vehicle and intended for use at the scene of an emergency; (i) white light from a red and white chequered domed lamp, or a red and white segmented mast-mounted warning beacon, fitted to a fire service control vehicle and intended for use at the scene of an emergency; (j) green light and white light from a chequered domed lamp fitted to an ambulance control vehicle and intended for use at the scene of an emergency; (k) blue light from a warning beacon or rear special warning lamp fitted to an emergency vehicle, or from any device fitted to a vehicle used for police purposes; (l) amber light from a warning beacon fitted to- (i) a road clearance vehicle; (ii) a vehicle constructed or adapted for the purpose of collecting refuse; (iii) a breakdown vehicle; (iv) a vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph or any trailer drawn by such a vehicle; (v) a vehicle having an overall width (including any load) exceeding 2.9 m; (vi) a vehicle used for the purposes of testing, maintaining, improving, cleansing or watering roads or for any purpose incidental to any such use; (vii) a vehicle used for the purpose of inspecting, cleansing, maintaining, adjusting, renewing or installing any apparatus which is in, on, under or over a road, or for any purpose incidental to any such use; (viii) a vehicle used for or in connection with any purpose for which it is authorised to be used on roads by an order under section 44 of the Act; (ix) a vehicle used for escort purposes when travelling at a speed not exceeding 25 mph; (x) a vehicle used by the Commissioners of Customs and Excise for the purpose of testing fuels; (xi) a vehicle used for the purpose of surveying; (xii) a vehicle used for the removal or immobilisation of vehicles in exercise of a statutory power or duty; (m) green light from a warning beacon fitted to a vehicle used by a medical practitioner registered by the General Medical Council (whether with full, provisional or limited registration); (n) yellow light from a warning beacon fitted to a vehicle for use at airports; (o) light of any colour from a traffic sign which is attached to a vehicle; (p) reflected light from amber pedal retro reflectors; (q) reflected light of any colour from retro reflective material or a retro reflector designed primarily to reflect light to one or both sides of the vehicle and attached to or incorporated in any wheel or tyre of- (i) a pedal cycle and any sidecar attached to it; (ii) a solo motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination; or (iii) an invalid carriage; ® reflected light from amber retro reflective material on a road clearance vehicle; (s) reflected light from yellow retro reflective registration plates; (t) reflected light from yellow retro reflective material incorporated in a rear marking of a type specified in Part I Section B of Schedule 19 and fitted to- (i) a motor vehicle having a maximum gross weight exceeding 7500 kg; (ii) a motor vehicle first used before 1st August 1982 having an unladen weight exceeding 3000 kg; (iii) a trailer having a maximum gross weight exceeding 3500 kg; (iv) a trailer manufactured before 1st August 1982 having an unladen weight exceeding 1000 kg; (v) a trailer which forms part of a combination of vehicles one of which is of a type mentioned in a previous item of this sub-paragraph; (vi) a load carried by any vehicle; or (u) reflected light from orange retro reflective material incorporated in a sign fitted to the rear of a vehicle carrying a dangerous substance within the meaning of the Dangerous Substances (Conveyance by Road in Road Tankers and Tank Containers) Regulations 1981[16] or the Road Traffic (Carriage of Dangerous Substances in Packages etc) Regulations 1986[17] Chris Post edited to include qualification to the second reply. 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GBMUD Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 if in doubt, ask your local police force With all due respect Callum, HA HA HA HA HA :rofl: Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstone Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 With all due respect Callum, HA HA HA HA HA :rofl: Chris we are not all that bad. some of us do care about the publics questions. calum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 My 110 wears it's 4 rotator amber lightbar at all times, I do have the truck marked up as rally recovery [but not always] I've never been questioned as to why the 110 has a amber light bar ftted [it's part of the MSA requirement to be fitted to motorsport recovery units] & I've been at the scene of numerous RTA's as I just happened to be at the front of the traffic when it happened, no query was raised by any police officer[traffic or local] at those times. also having a beacon [amber] even if it's a single one is a good idea if you ever have to tow another vehicle, as it lets others know you are travelling at reduced speed & there is a moving hazard ahead of the other drivers coming up from behind & from the other direction on 2 lane roads. so as far as I can see provided your not misusing the amber beacon [for example- parking on double yellow lines with it switched on] most traffic/local police just aren't bothered if a beacon is fitted or even connected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstone Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 My 110 waers it's 4 rotator amber lightbar at all times, I do have the truck marked up as rally recovery [but not always] I've never been questioned as to why the 110 has a amber light bar ftted [it's part of the MSA requirement to be fitted to motorsport recivery units] & I've been at the scene of numerous RTA's as I just happened to be at the front of the traffic when it happened, no query was raised by any police officer[traffic or local] at those times.also having a beacon [amber] even if it's a single one is a good idea if you ever have to tow another vehicle, as it lets others know you are travelling at reduced speed & there is a moving hazard ahead of the other drivers coming up from behind & from the other direction on 2 lane roads. so as far as I can see provided your not misusing the amber beacon [for example- parking on double yellow lines with it switched on] most traffic/local police just aren't bothered if a beacon is fitted or even connected. very true. we have better things to do than pull someone over for something as trivial as an amber light. we are overstretched as it is. . but technically its still illegal. you wont get points, but you will get a fixed penalty notice. remember, if a traffic officer or a community support officer reports there suspicions, we would have to follow it up. best thing is, if you don't need it, don't have it fitted. and if you do, by all means have it on. calum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YAS328 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Got beacons fitted to two Land rovers... Both used for working on roadside removing dangerous trees, often recovery and moving abnormal loads... (i) a road clearance vehicle; (iii) a breakdown vehicle; (iv) a vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph or any trailer drawn by such a vehicle; (v) a vehicle having an overall width (including any load) exceeding 2.9 m; (vi) a vehicle used for the purposes of testing, maintaining, improving, cleansing or watering roads or for any purpose incidental to any such use; (vii) a vehicle used for the purpose of inspecting, cleansing, maintaining, adjusting, renewing or installing any apparatus which is in, on, under or over a road, or for any purpose incidental to any such use; (viii) a vehicle used for or in connection with any purpose for which it is authorised to be used on roads by an order under section 44 of the Act; (ix) a vehicle used for escort purposes when travelling at a speed not exceeding 25 mph; (xi) a vehicle used for the purpose of surveying; Would all apply to our Land rovers and we are fully insured.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 very true. we have better things to do than pull someone over for something as trivial as an amber light. we are overstretched as it is. . but technically its still illegal. you wont get points, but you will get a fixed penalty notice. remember, if a traffic officer or a community support officer reports there suspicions, we would have to follow it up. best thing is, if you don't need it, don't have it fitted. and if you do, by all means have it on.calum 13 years it's been fitted now & connected all the time, it's to darn heavy to keep removing/fitting it for rally duty so it'll stay where it is. it only gets switched on when required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicTheOrange90 Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 I know we all think that the police are there to catch 'real criminals' (whoever they might be) and your MOT test inspector should be on the ball and spot things such as lights that might contravene regs, and the fact that the 'reasonable man' test might think it a good thing that some 'member of the public' with a 4x4 has yellow flashing lights on the roof a good thing (athough a lot of drivers seem to ignore the blue ones so yellow wont make much difference) you might end up getting stuck on with a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) and fine if the officer is up to speed on these things and is so minded. That a police officer has witnessed an offence being commited (ie you help out at a Road Traffic Collision and use your yellow flashing lighs) and nothing is said is not a defence in itself. This may be one of those areas where common sense seems to have gone out of the window, and why do we all see so many PFY's (Pimply Faced Youth's) driving with other than a red light at the back or other than a white light at the front etc.... If my original question has provoked a bit of thought amongst forum members and stops even one of us from allowing our vehicle to fall foul of a ticket and us a fine, then its done its job, IMHO if you fit lights that are not in accordance with the regs, you run the risks and as we know a lot of police forces are now target driven, which could translate to an officer who is only needing a couple of more FPNs for his or her monthly total and if its your vehicle..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinny Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 im as western i have a lightbar 4 rotator on my disco been on there for 2 years never had a problem and before that had one on a transit van if you dont abuse it i dont see a problem my disco is also striped at the rear with red reflective tape. chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 How do they differ from regular hazard warning lights? Legally that is? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I have one on my tractor, mind you it can't reach 30 mph! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstone Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 How do they differ from regular hazard warning lights? Legally that is?Si hazard warning lights should only be used in an emergency. ie im broken down. a flashing amber revolving light means more things. it warns people but it also forces road users to change there driving style. hence they are restricted to certain professions because only authorized people have the right to change traffic flow or speed. calum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 and your MOT test inspector should be on the ball and spot things such as lights that might contravene regs, with regard to my lightbar, since it's been fitted my 110 has never caused any concern at MOT time, the lightbar is not a testable item & no comments have ever been raised by the tester. I was pulled in for a VOSA fuel check about 18 months ago & the only comment one of the traffic officers made was 'quote' that's a sweet sounding Tdi in there' no mention by VOSA or the traffic officers [& there were IIRC 4 of them] about my lightbar. That a police officer has witnessed an offence being commited (ie you help out at a Road Traffic Collision and use your yellow flashing lighs) and nothing is said is not a defence in itself. never said it was. hazard warning lights should only be used in an emergency. ie im broken down & can be used on a motorway to notify following traffic of a hold-up/obstruction on the carriageway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstone Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I have one on my tractor, mind you it can't reach 30 mph!John the reason agricultural vehicles have flashing amber lights is to alert the public to there size but also that there speed is restricted. older classic cars which cannot go above 30 mph are supposed to have a amber flashing light on the rear of there vehicle of some description when they leave a 30 mph zone. if not, it poses a risk to public safety. calum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 With the exception a very few LR owners I really cannot see the point of these beacons. I, rightly or wrongly, see them as some lame attempt at a status symbol. They often make me smile to myself. I don't believe for one minute that the vast majority of the beacons on LR's are actually there for a legitimate purpose. Each to their own I suppose, but not for me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstone Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 with regard to my lightbar, since it's been fitted my 110 has never caused any concern at MOT time, the lightbar is not a testable item & no comments have ever been raised by the tester. I was pulled in for a VOSA fuel check about 18 months ago & the only comment one of the traffic officers made was 'quote' that's a sweet sounding Tdi in there' no mention by VOSA or the traffic officers [& there were IIRC 4 of them] about my lightbar. never said it was. i doubt the traffic officer or vosa officer could be bothered with the 3 page report they would have to fill out. also, unless they inspected the vehicles electrics (which only certified trained officers can do) they would have no way of telling they were wired. despite what people say, officers are not solely driven by the number of incidences they deal with. a M.I.T officer (murder investigation team) would not be fired for only dealing with one incident. and a beat officer would not get a promotion for giving out 100 fixed penalty notices. it is solely done on the officers merit and the way they dealt with the incident. if they are not doing there job, it makes sense to give them a talking to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I guess there are two camps here really: 1) People with a good reason to have lights fitted, usually for off-road/non-public use anyway and with their heads screwed on 2) The sort of vapid muppets who think they're cool (usually accompanied by acres of chequer plate, hundreds of foglights and a rope wrapped round the front bumper) People in group 1 would be unlikely to be using the lights "in public" anyway unless there was a very good reason, when they would likely be more an extension of the statutory hazard warning lights. People in group 2 are muppets anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderman Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 With the exception a very few LR owners I really cannot see the point of these beacons. I, rightly or wrongly, see them as some lame attempt at a status symbol. They often make me smile to myself.I don't believe for one minute that the vast majority of the beacons on LR's are actually there for a legitimate purpose. Each to their own I suppose, but not for me! Totaly agree with you there Bish , If you dont have a bona-fidi reason to have a beacon fitted why fit one , So you can pretend you are some kind of authority ? If you want a temporary fitment why not rivet a steel plate to your roof and keep a mag mount beacon in the cab . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crwoody Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 hazard warning lights should only be used in an emergency. ie im broken down. Or - "I'm illegally parked outside the paper shop and just pretending to be broken down!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderman Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 People in group 2 are muppets anyway. And to name a stereotype they probably wear Camo trousers and jacket , wear a clip on key chain and frequent car boot sales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 With the exception a very few LR owners I really cannot see the point of these beacons. I, rightly or wrongly, see them as some lame attempt at a status symbol. They often make me smile to myself.I don't believe for one minute that the vast majority of the beacons on LR's are actually there for a legitimate purpose. Each to their own I suppose, but not for me! Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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