JJ7893 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Hi all I have asked this question in the disco thread but I thought I try here and see if any 1 can help me please, First off I have a 300tdi EDC ES manual 1994 and it has a rough idle but fine on driving the road, It getting worse all the time, I cannot find what is wrong with it on the www. Some said the TPS but it don't show the same symptom as the TPS, Mine happens on idle not on the move. So I been told the way forward is a manual cable operated diesel pump and fittings. I happen to have a 200tdi I have had from a fellow member on here but she needs lots of welding so while it off the road awaiting better weather and a lot better welder (From gasless to gas) could I "borrow" the pump etc and fit them on to the 300tdi to replace the FBW (Fly By Wire)? Any help would be helpful thanks ........JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7893 Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 Hi again, Been to see the landy and brought it home this time had it towed home, I have to say Im very sorry for my mix up It not a FBW, It does have a cable, Even though the last owner was told by the garage it was FBW. Think he was not sure as he said he dont understand cars. Its a Discovery 300tdi ES manual box 155,000 miles on the clock, last service stamp was 30,000 mile ago. Well looked aftered. So I now have a new problem! There are no brakes! have to pump it up to get them working is that the vacuum pump on the block gone? It ticks over ok till you rev it then it will drop so low that it starting to stall or it does stall! When I rev it got a very high pitch squeal/Whistling, I took the inlet pipe of the turbo off and tried moving the spindle that is fine and smooth, (did it when it cooled down and turned off!) I felt the pipes from vac pump to brake servo there was nothing there.(meaning leaks) I know the cv joint has gone so that could of put the ABS sensor out would you think so?. When driving theres only power for about 20 seconds then it drops to nothing foot down on the pedal it just comes to a halt! lift your foot up then leave for about 15/20 seconds then you can rev again. But if you rev it out of gear it keeps reving and hold it there! All the gears are smooth no crunching or grinding There a nut missing of one glow plug dont think it has anything to do with it but worth saying, Also where about on the steering pump would it leak? As there was no power steering on the way home till I had to fill it up at home now working apart from this leak. This is going to be a new project I have 24 days to get it through its mot and on the road will it get done??? I will start a new post I think!!! Here some pictures; Lost nut on glowplug. I noticed the thread was there could not work out what was there is that the drain plug thread? Sorry for any messing around I will try not to do it again! ......JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 The threaded hole is for the wading plug, so there shouldn't be anything in there until you are going to drive through deep water. A worn CV joint won't affect the ABS. Pumping the pedal means that there's air in the system/leak somewhere (check the master cylinder). Servo not working will just give you hard brakes. Your lift pump has been replaced as well as the fuel filter - have you looked at the sedimenter inside the drivers side rear wheel arch? Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7893 Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 Thanks for that Les, I have looked at the sedimenter and found nothing to worry about took filter drain off and put it back nothing change still the same as it was, So today I could not do much as I had to see my kids, but for now have stopped the whistling it was down to the pulley also got a huge split in the exhaust too so that dont help. I checked the vacuum pump it pumping ok, Did the pump and start engine test it did what it should do "sink" but there is a whooshing noise when I press the pedal down. I will bleed them and see if they make a difference plus while Im at it I will replace the fluid. while I was at it I could not see any leaks of air or fluid, How I can I find out which ABS is dead? The ABS dash light is on but the wire is disconnected on the ABS pump will that make a difference? Anyway thought I do a quick video on photobucket, what you see is the throttle on the pump moving by hand it just so you can see what happens. To me it feels it cant get enough fuel while reving then having to wait for it to refill hence it stalling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 That sounds awfully like tensioner/idler bearings about to give-up the ghost entirely. Has the timing belt been replaced or even checked? Can you identify where the noise is coming from? Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 definitly not a happy engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7893 Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 No she is not a happy engine at the moment so my next plan is to take off the front so I can get to the timing belt also check the tappets to see what if its ok. The belt was changed last April when it had its mot, but think after all that messing around saying it was a fbw and it was not!! Think I better change it myself to be on the safe side. I can say it has been stood for 8 months facing the rain head-on so that may not of helped, for the rough would you think it the pump or belt .....I will look on Tuesday as Im finnishing off the welding for a fellow member tomorrow. thanks for helping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 If you get a length of wood (not 8-foot of two by four), but a length of dowelling or similar - put one end on the timing case and stick your lug-hole on the other, the stick acts like a stethoscope, and you can quite accurately locate the noise. It could be that the belt was changed, but not the tensioner or idler (bad idea). Take the round plate off the timing case (opposite the injector pump sprocket), and have look inside. If there's a lot of fibrous rubber in there, then perhaps it might not be a wise idea to start the engine again until you've checked it out. Also check the automatic tensioner - a badly worn bearing in the wheel will make a similar noise. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7893 Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 Hi Les Thanks for your tip, I found the noise it was from the water pump! Just being very stiff. now with that sorted it still runs rough,but quieter. I'm going to change the belt anyway found a receipt that just had the tensioner or idler replaced (not cheap!!) Tried swapping over the 2 pipes on the lift pump, Nothing changed, took the filler cap off in-case the breather was blocked but no change. Had a look at the 2 pumps (200 & 300 ) and there both the same even the same codes, So may swap the pumps over. as I cant see what else is wrong with it. non of the pipes are twisted, crushed or anything like it, Oh and that idea with the doweling it would not work with me ...Im deaf lol I wear hearing aids...I do it by feeling but I'm not putting my fingers near there !!! Is there a filter on the pump? I have one on the Toyota you just unscrew the stop switch then there a little mesh filter they normally the problem on these. The reason I ask it seems to be the pump is starving of diesel when its being rev-ed then stalling as it is filling back up, then it back to norm. What are the chances of the lift pump been put in wrong? Or is there something electrical that could be wrong/faulty? or could there be a block in the filter housing? Sorry for asking these questions but I feel If I'm nearly there .......JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7893 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 Im going to be fitting in a CV joint in the front axle also remove the rear diff housing as it is leaking, can anyone just give me a rough idea how much oil will I be needing in each casing please. There is something else too but forgot what I wanted to ask!! nevermind I remember when I go to sleep lol .....JJ Just remembered what it was ...can I test the lift pump? if so how please thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 If you had the pipes on the fuel pump the wrong way round, the engine wouldn't work at all. To test the pump, remove the pipe that goes to the filter, disconnect the fuel cut off switch on the injector pump, put the end of the pipe in a container, then spin the engine on the starter. There should be quite a powerful pulsing jet of fuel. Diff capacity is 1 1/2lt of EP80/90 (I think). Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7893 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 If you had the pipes on the fuel pump the wrong way round, the engine wouldn't work at all.Les. Thats funny it still ran not as smooth but it still ran and rev-ed abit, cheers for the oil tip I get some when Im town next. .......JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I'd be tempted to eliminate fuel system problems, by disconnecting both feed and return from the injection pump and running them into a CLEAN jam jar with CLEAN diesel in it. Try running it then - remember to keep the jam jar above the level of the pump. That will eliminate any fuel system problems. I'm not certain about swapping a 200 pump onto a 300. They are both the same type of pump, but I expect they will be set up differently. You may be able to take the good one along to a diesel specialist who will set it up for a 300 engine. It might be worth putting it on just to check anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7893 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 We it took me all day just to get the pump off as most of the bolts where rounded off! so some had to be cut off, grinded off, or just hacked to death off! anyway now its off. now looking at the guides I have, some say I need to replace the gasket and crankshaft dust seal, do i have to? The pump gasket broke away I can make one with gasket paper I have so thats not a problem, belt will be replace ordering that tonight or tomorrow along with the aircon belt as that is shot too. IT had the modified tension pulley fitted not too long ago and it feels firm but rolls freely. jamesmorfee, If I had seen your post before I took it off then I would of tried but I cant now. But thanks for your tip will bare that next time, Now I got the pump out Im tempted to have a go at striping it down and see if I can see anything that is blocking it. Thanks for your help guys .......JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 JJ, Have you examined the timing belt, it's tensioner and the idler that sit under the cast ally cover on the front of the engine ? Uncle Les understands these things and is not usually far wrong. A belt that has jumped or lost teeth will misstime the fuelling which could result in your rough running. Knackered idler and tensioner for the timing belt make one hell of a racket. I'm familiar with the above through experience I'm not sure how well you know engines but don't confuse the fan belt with the timing belt ! (grandmother, suck eggs, apologies ) HTH Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7893 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 Hi Mo Murphy, Yes I know what is going on. The tensioner and the idler are fine smooth and firm, There found behind the timing cover on the cover it self there are a idler and bearing for the fan. The noise come from the water pump as it is stiff and it also squeaks. (I took off the fan belt off then ran the cold engine for about 30 second It sounded quieter than our Toyota!!) But it sounded right So the water pump is going to be replaced. Talking about a tooth out I think you hit it on the head as when tried to line up the flywheel, the pump would not line up. So I tried to undo the bolts thats was when I found out that they where rounded off. do you think someone was trying to sort it out but screwed it up? So for now I'm waiting for the timing belt and put it back up and see how it goes. Coming to think of it I remember doing a TD Mondeo in the last garaged I worked for before the RTA (That what put end to my career), that was a tooth out even thought you sworn blind it was spot on but on the road there was no power and it sounded like it was going to blow up!! it was the woodruff key and pulley being worn out and the pulley wheel had moved a fraction but it made all the difference! ...JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 It's important that the three bolts on the injector pump sprocket are slackened or the pump timimg will most likely be out when you fit the new belt. If the bolts are rounded, try tapping a 3/8" socket on (which is slightly smaller) instead of 10mm. If you replace the bolts, then you can use M8 coarse x 15mm socket head (Allen) bolts. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7893 Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 It's important that the three bolts on the injector pump sprocket are slackened or the pump timimg will most likely be out when you fit the new belt. If the bolts are rounded, try tapping a 3/8" socket on (which is slightly smaller) instead of 10mm.If you replace the bolts, then you can use M8 coarse x 15mm socket head (Allen) bolts. Les. I tried the 3/8" nothing would budge it ending up with more work by grinding the head off, then the thread came undone with the plyers. now going to wash the housing up to make sure there are no bits left in it. I do have Allen head bolts somewhere but where I have no idea. We just moved in to this house and I dont have a workshop at the moment it is being built as we speak and all my tools and bits are in storage or in the attic also some in the studio over the yard. so Think I will be busy looking for the bolts! Cheers again ........JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7893 Posted March 14, 2009 Author Share Posted March 14, 2009 I got my timing belt today so I put the pump back on and put the belt on turned it twice etc then remembered the flywheel, got a twist drill in and it would not go in! so I turned the crank shaft till the bit went in and had a look at the timing mark and they are way out! Is there any chance that the flywheel could of been removed and put back in a bolt or 2 out? What else could be wrong? I dont fancy removing the gearbox to correct it will it be ok? Thanks for any imput .......JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 The flywheel has a unique bolt pattern so that it only goes on the one way. Turn the crank in the normal direction of rotation until the woodruff key is almost at 12 o clock, then put the drill bit through the hole and turn the crank further until the drill bit slots in. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7893 Posted March 14, 2009 Author Share Posted March 14, 2009 The flywheel has a unique bolt pattern so that it only goes on the one way. Turn the crank in the normal direction of rotation until the woodruff key is almost at 12 o clock, then put the drill bit through the hole and turn the crank further until the drill bit slots in.Les. I put the timing on the crank at 12 Oclock, Put pin in the pump and mark on camshaft at 7ish Oclock put belt on it started ok after priming, so what your saying is I need to turn the crank till it reaches the slot in the flywheel then put the belt on? I get some pictures on so you get the idea of how far out it is, Here it is before the flywheel is turned to tdc, And here is the flywheel at tdc, To get the idea of the crack is now after turning it is about 3.30 Oclock now is that ment to be there then mark up the others at there right place or is there something Im missing? thanks .....JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlue88 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 There is more than one slot in the flywheel(been there,done that),as Les said,line up the crank at the pulley end then put your drill bit in the flywheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 use the narrow slot in the flywhel & centre it along the wading plug hole front to rear axis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7893 Posted March 14, 2009 Author Share Posted March 14, 2009 There is more than one slot in the flywheel(been there,done that),as Les said,line up the crank at the pulley end then put your drill bit in the flywheel. Your right just moved it a tad back and found it but the bit I used 8mm was too big it find it one way but not the other. hence the reason I could not find it properly, so I turned the bit around and used the groove of the drill bit and it slotted home like it belonged there lol. but the timing is still on the marks, so think Im safe to say the timing is spot on. As for the running problem I E mailed LRO and they think it could be a collapesed pipe or to remove the sender unit to have a look at the pick up pipe to see if it split, But they are very sure it is a fuel problem so just will have to try and sort it out on Monday to see what it is. .......Regards ...JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7893 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 WooHoo got it running sweet as nut! it was a pin hole in the pickup pipe on the tank! now need to sort out the exhaust and find out why it smokes on drive but ok on stand still? any ideas please ......JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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