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Failed The MOT


tuko
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In the 5 years of owning the Disco, I can't remember a year that it has passed an MOT without any faults. :(

Expecting the worst, she failed again today thanks to rust on the steel brake pipes that run along the bottom side of the floor boards to the rear axle. Only one had surface rust and I have to say I questioned his call as it did not look anywhere severe as he thought/claimed it to be, but he's the man with the power. <_<

Searching the popular sites on the net, I've not found anybody that carried the original steel pipes (NTC8874) and it has me wondering if I should be looking at this route? I mean, should I replace with original (it is the braking system after all) or should I make a set of pipes myself using copper?

Todd.

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"Cupro nickel"

That's the name, I couldn't remember that one......I'll be looking in at our local auto parts distributor for a roll.

I guess the job doesn't have to be fancy or anything, but I would like to use the same clip retainers and route/placement if possible. That leads to another question, what size piping should I buy?

Todd.

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......

Searching the popular sites on the net, I've not found anybody that carried the original steel pipes (NTC8874) ......

Here are 3 places that list the item: 1, 2 and 3. Note the price difference between 1 and 2/3 although all three list the item as genuine.

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If they are definately ok and just a small amount of surface rust then just wire brush em over and smother them in grease.

The problem is, the MOT guideline calls for the replacement of them due to the failure. :angry:

Todd.

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"Cupro nickel"

That's the name, I couldn't remember that one......I'll be looking in at our local auto parts distributor for a roll.

I guess the job doesn't have to be fancy or anything, but I would like to use the same clip retainers and route/placement if possible. That leads to another question, what size piping should I buy?

Todd.

Also often known as cunifer tube (Cu copper Ni nickel Fe iron) Try to avoid copper pipe (also freely available) because it has been known to work harden with vibration and fracture.

The size is standard (for cars) just make sure you buy some new end fittings and have a practice with the flaring tool before doing it for real. It's a simple job.

Julian.

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I questioned his call as it did not look anywhere severe as he thought/claimed it to be, but he's the man with the power. <_<

Not technically right. If you are to believe that he has been a bit harsh on the brake pipes you can always ask for a VT17 which is a customer complaints form which goes to VOSA, where they will contact you and arrange to assess your car. Normally the asking of the VT17 is enough for them to pass your car with an advisory. Unfortunately the MOT guide lines are very grey and are normally down to individuals interpretation, but from what I can remember the wall thickness of a brake pipe has to be considered damaged more than a third of its original thickness. As there is no way of determining the thickness of the brake pipe, unless cutting it in half to measure (which of course you can't do on an MOT), so as long as it's not excessively corroded ie leaking, it can only be advised.

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Not technically right. If you are to believe that he has been a bit harsh on the brake pipes you can always ask for a VT17 which is a customer complaints form which goes to VOSA, where they will contact you and arrange to assess your car. Normally the asking of the VT17 is enough for them to pass your car with an advisory. Unfortunately the MOT guide lines are very grey and are normally down to individuals interpretation, but from what I can remember the wall thickness of a brake pipe has to be considered damaged more than a third of its original thickness. As there is no way of determining the thickness of the brake pipe, unless cutting it in half to measure (which of course you can't do on an MOT), so as long as it's not excessively corroded ie leaking, it can only be advised.

or just spend a few quid changing them then you know they are good. its not expensive and for the piece of mind well worth it

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or just spend a few quid changing them then you know they are good. its not expensive and for the piece of mind well worth it

And.... wot he said ^^^^^. Absolutely right, it's not the biggest job, and not the most expensive, we sell copper and kunifer (copper nickel iron), 3/16 on a 25ft roll, there's aprrox 50p difference!!! Price for me inc fittings, less than a tenner, worth doing the job even if it just on an 'advisory' basis from the MOTman.

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I'm looking at replacing the piping guys. ;)

Just wondering, I have ABS and the piping that I'll be replacing is after the ABS module, will that cause any headaches??

Jonnigee,

where are you getting the piping at?

Todd.

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Just wondering, I have ABS and the piping that I'll be replacing is after the ABS module, will that cause any headaches??

Shouldn't do, the only timesI have had issues bleading the breaks with ABS is the fronts, or when the system has been emptied...

Get yourself an eezibleed when you get your pipe -saves lots of hassle.

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My reply in no such way meant that you should do away with safety to have an arguement with an MOT tester. The whole point of my reply was that just because the MOT tester fails it doesn't automatically mean that it is law and has to be done. The whole point was to show that are appeal systems if you feel that you have been unfairly failed. My interpretation of the first post was that this was what he had felt as it stated only surface rust and not heavily corroded. Can't state enough that safety should come first, but you will find some MOT stations out there will fail it to try to get the work out of you. I shall finish my rant now and storm off in a huff.

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When I looked under mine the first time after I got it with a new MOT I was horrified that it had been let through with rusty pipes. I changed the lot and the flexibles and all the plastic clips. Got the lot from Rimmers, it all came in a huge box through the post. Took one afternoon, easy to bleed out the air and all heavily greased afterwards. Did new disks and pads as well. Not touching that lot now for a few years.

Good luck with yours.

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My reply in no such way meant that you should do away with safety to have an arguement with an MOT tester. The whole point of my reply was that just because the MOT tester fails it doesn't automatically mean that it is law and has to be done. The whole point was to show that are appeal systems if you feel that you have been unfairly failed. My interpretation of the first post was that this was what he had felt as it stated only surface rust and not heavily corroded. Can't state enough that safety should come first, but you will find some MOT stations out there will fail it to try to get the work out of you. I shall finish my rant now and storm off in a huff.

after my last mot i have to agree with you safty first but also common sence mine had a bit of surface rust cleaned it up greased it no worries at next mot and i still stop :P

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I would say that the fail was a wise decision Todd - look back beyond the 2nd pipe clip - it looks bad enough to fail in my opinion (or it's your rubbish picture :) )

I had a 200TDi Defender fail on a brake pipe today, and it wasn't as bad as that, but was a good decision in my opinion. The pitting cannot be accurately measured and might be even deeper than you imagine. It only takes a pin hole for partial brake failure.

Les :)

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I would say that the fail was a wise decision Todd - look back beyond the 2nd pipe clip - it looks bad enough to fail in my opinion (or it's your rubbish picture :) )

Les :)

I agree, that pipe really wants taking off and replacing. Years ago when I was a tester I remember quite a few pipes like that, mainly Vauxhall Vivas for some strange reason, actually bursting when testing the brakes on the rollers.

Julian.

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Mine failed on "surface rust" recently The MoT tester is a good friend to both my wife and I and when I did the work, he went up in my estimation - although I had no problems braking, the pipes literally fell apart when I started taking them off!

He gave me a good tip - by telling me not to be fussy about taking off the pipes carefully if I had any trouble undoing a union fitting - just cut the pipe half an inch out from the fitting and get a ring spanner of a socket over the whole fitting and avoid the risk of rounding off the flanges.

The whole job took me an afternoon from start to road test. Then back to the MoT centre for a five minute visual inspection and a "pass" certificate.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I began replacing the rear brake pipes today. I know I made a fuss over the failure but after removing the pipes today, I'll be thanking my lucky stars that I did fail and that he brought this serious fault to my attention. The pipes in their entirety were shot!

Even the lower portions of the 2 pipes that come down from the ABS pump had to be removed and on them the lower 10cm or so was removed. Today working at my pace, I've gotten 3 pipes done and will finish everything up tomorrow.

Oh, at the same time I'll thoroughly flush the brake fluid as the fluid in the system is a perfect caramel brown. :o

I have no idea when or if it ever was changed but I do know that the manual state every 3 years......It will be from this point forward. ;)

Todd.

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