Chilly Willy

[Neil Marshall]

Christmas is coming........and my Defender will hardly be a bird puller - too bloody cold!

I'd like to be prepared for winter - just this once - and wonder if anyone's got any ideas on how to improve warm-up time/heat output/volume of air? Can you swap the heater unit for a Disco or later LDV item, for example?

I seem to recall an older item in 'the other place' that involved drilling out the rivets, possibly to improve the internal sealing [?].

What benefits are derived from changing the resistor?

Neil

[LandyManLuke]

My heater is toasty once the engine is up to temperature - about 6 miles running. completly standard unit.

Worth checking the cables to make sure they are correctly adjusted and tight, and that the fan switch contacts are ok.

Luke

[LR90]

hmm, remindes me. Must take mine apart sometime, before it gets too cold, and wash the mud out of the matrix. That should help.

[jamesm]

Slip a baffle down the front of the radiator once the weather gets cold; it improves things no end, but you need to keep one eye on the temperature gauge when on the motorway.

I made mine out of lino, and it ties on to the top of the radiator housing with wire. (It's a slapdash copy of a nice aluminium one made by simonr ) You'll need to make 3 round holes of 100mm diameter to allow a bit of cooling - they're best arranged in a triangle so that they're not all cooling the same waterways.

More expensive alternatives are:

- fit a blind to the front of the radiator grille - the magazines often have an ad for ex-military ones for about £50.

- buy a fuel burning heater (like a lorry night heater) - they're made by Eberspacher or Webasto, and are fairly pricey even secondhand. I got mine off ebay for reasonable money because it was mid summer, and really must get round to fitting it (I said that last year too - at the moment it heats my shed)

[LR90]

Eberspacher

yep, got one of them to fit too some time.

[darthdicky]

You can take the bits of foam out of the lower vents which improves airflow to your feet quite a bit.

I don't have problems with slow warming up in mine as it's petrol and is chucking out a bit of heat before I leave the village I made a rad muff one year (covered just over half the rad) and left it on all winter but can't say I noticed it warming up quicker, or getting hotter at any time.

Richard

[M005]

Agree with Luke; check the cable son the heater matrix under the hood.

I found I had another 1/2 inch of travel on mine, adjusted it and toasty warm

[JST]

mt tdi chucks out plenty of heat whilst the td5 heater is carp and there no air flow when the fans are off unlike my tdi which blows aor through the ventilation(!) system dependant on speed.

i have tried most things to improve the cabin heater on mine to little effect.

however the webasto greatly improves engine warm up time and removes that harsh td5 rattle that they have when cold, and reduces engine wear, the heater fan also blows faster and hotter (it seems) when the unit is running.

there are some after market replacement 'improved flow' heater matrixes arounds, anyone tried them?

[simonb]

Having mangaged to shoe horn 2 matrixs into my series 3 heater box, I have been working out how to do the same in my 90. It involved taking out the internal baffles and flap and remaking them more "compact", and squaring off the corner on the front of the box. 2 series 3 matrixs then fit in. Involved quite a bit of ally plate folding up (got a sheet metal bender at work) but its just about done. Will be fitting it soon....

My 300tdi has got a wabasto as well but that cuts out at 60c water temp and the matrix just doesn't produce any heat until water is at 80 degrees. Hopefully with twice the heating area soon, i won't freeze each morning. Its not helped by the cool running of the tdi's

The standard box is so badly designed, why did they bother to make the internal air passages over twice the cross sectional area of the outlet from the fan case, the size of that outlet that is the limiting factor. As a result the air slows down, BEFORE it goes through the matrix and the dash ducting!! I'm sure someone who is a wizz on a CAD/CNC package could knock up a better heater box and make a fortune. I've proved it can be done but its a bit of a faff with cornflake box templates!

The alternative is the ally matrixs at over £200 a go....

[jamesm]

Probably worth mentioning here that there are two types of fuel burning heater:

- engine preheaters; these live under the bonnet and heat the coolant. Iirc, they're fitted to some TD5 vehicles to help the standard heater do its job. As the name suggests, they can be used to preheat the engine, avoiding cold starts.

- cab heaters; these live in the passenger compartment and blow out hot air. Reputed to be toastier than the other type, and look like a cylinder vacuum cleaner scaled down to (roughly) the size of a 2 litre Coke bottle. Mine makes a noise like a rocket at take off, so I've bought it a tiny exhaust silencer to avoid frightening passers by!

[Ben Reedy]

Despite years of to-ing and fro-ing on the subject, I'm still not convinced that electric fans or radiator muffs will make any difference to the heater output. If the thermostat is doing its job, your engine is still going to produce the same amount of heat and the 'stat will ensure that the radiator disposes of the appropriate amount, no matter how good or bad the airflow. If you block the rad to the extent that you are actually raising the coolant temperature, you're heading for disaster.

The only way is either to fit a warmer 'stat or to increase the efficiency of the matrix, which you can do by ensuring it is clean and unobstructed and the air is flowing through the right bits. It's pretty easy to strip the heater and replace all the foam seals, and you can get your local radiator reconditioner to rebuild the matrix for a small sum. Assuming all is then working at its best, the only limiting factor is the temperature of the coolant itself.

[jamesm]

Trouble is, the Tdi doesn't chuck out much heat (certainly not compared to a V8) and the radiator is sized to cope with stuff like towing a heavy trailer in hot weather.

I worried a lot about overheating the engine, but found that cutting three 100mm holes in the baffle (and only fitting it when the weather is cold) resulted in the temperature gauge behaving as if it was summer - it didn't go much over half way, and the heater worked. Two holes gave a nice quick warm up, but the temperature would get higher than I felf comfortable with on the motorway. With no holes at all, I think the cheque book would be out very soon.

[simonb]

Quite! 2 winters ago, going down the M4 to Cardiff, heater full on, outside air temp just about freezing, wasn't much warmer inside, and that was driving fully at the speed limit - b4 the camera vans were so frequent

[Neil Marshall]

Simon

Can we see some piccys??

Neil

[simonb]

Hmm, should have taken some pics b4 i sealed the heater box all back up, doh! The box looks the same as a standard one apart from its square across the front without the cut off corner. The 2 matrix are in series with a hose loop (part of a 200 def heater hose).

What i've basically done is take out the standard hot/cold diverter plate and baffle from the box. I've then made a new square front and lid and base. The diverter plate takes up a ridiculous amount of space and there is a lot of wasted space in front of the matrix. Remade the baffle bit so that the air slot is thinner but goes from top to bottom of the box. I cut down the flap in width but extended it in height. The flap hole is now the same in cross section area as the fan inlet hole.

Series 3 matrixs are about the same width and depth but not as tall, so that allows the header tanks to be INSIDE the box instead of outside like on the 90/110 one - so that will keep more heat in. Overall the layout looks similar to the original but makes better use of the internal space. The back matrix is arranged so that it just clears the outlet flap. The other one is about 10mm in front using the space by making the box square.

[simonb]

meant to edit the previous not post it twice!!, hence this post...(no delete post button)

[Neil Marshall]

Simon

Any chance of a drawing, however crude

Neil

[110CSWDEFENDER]

Hi all.

There is a factor which is often overlooked.

If you want to get hot air into the passenger compartment, there has to be somewhere for air to get out, and some Defenders are surprisingly airtight (if not watertight...).

If you search around on any modern car you will find some vents with simple flap valves at the rear (they are usually not obvious, and are often tucked away behind the bumper or somewhere).

Defenders were fitted with vents above the back door for a while, but these were deleted as there was allegedly a prob with exhaust fumes getting in.

Don

[MarkieB]

reminding me of an idea I had; most modern cars have got a selector between fresh air <—> recycled air, to increase heating on recycled air from the cabin rather than cold air from the cold.

It seems as though, [i haven't checked closely so this may not be accurate] unless there's already a way of adapting the system, eg in later models; it could be feasible to either: A make a length of ducting from the heater input to eg a port in a footwell, to recycle air from; or B to put in a heater from a modern vehicle with good heating, simply re-making all the connections, plus possibly additional controls.

[Des Morgan]

f you want to get hot air into the passenger compartment, there has to be somewhere for air to get out, and some Defenders are surprisingly airtight (if not watertight...).

Not good. It was found during tests in Oz (& maybe in the UK) that during Winter, too many drivers shut off the Fresh Air makeup resulting in a lack of oxygen after covering a reasonable distance. If this is done, then the system should be put back to Fresh Air for a few minutes every now & then.

It was found that not doing this caused sleepiness & accidents especially on country roads & long trips.

Makes one wonder if some sort of Auto Timer should be introduced to operate the flaps.

[Neil Marshall]

These images were sent to me by simonb. Thanks Simon - very clear:

[MarkieB]

too many drivers shut off the Fresh Air makeup resulting in a lack of oxygen

..

Makes one wonder if some sort of Auto Timer should be introduced to operate the flaps.

I resort to the low-tech option, wind down the window a notch.

Benefits: demisting of the area covering the view to the wing mirror, fresh air at face level, often accentuating the warm air at foot level. That is, when there's warm air from the heater

[MarkieB]

whoops, I got a server error so it had looked as though the first post wasn't posted.

[Spectric]

Hi all

A good solution for diesels is to use a diesel heater from Webasto or eberspacer. Instant heat and you can have a nice warm vehicle to come back to after a day out walking. It's also handy when you break down and are waiting to be recovered !

The only downside apart from cost is it consumes diesel and is not free heat like the std system.

I was given no option because I had to through out the std heater box on my 300 in order to fit a proper sized airfilter assembly and there was no where else to fit it, whereas there were options for a heater.

[Log]

If you really want to toast then some form of screen behind the front seats to block off the arctic zone behind will make a huge difference. People may scoff but a large piece of suitably cut cardboard stuck on with gaffer tape is very effective and costs virtually nothing.

Logg