Ryan Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 They can arrest you for anything that takes their fancy these days, here's a copy of an email from a friend who is trying to have the arrest laws amended due to flagrant abuse and interpretation. There are so many errors in that e-mail that I think I would get banned from the forum if I commented. Suffice it to say that the author is out of touch with current policing and doesn't appear to know what he is talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-Mid Wales Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 It may or not be common knowledge that Powys CC have very recently given Tom a "Park and Picnic" permit since he was/ still is in breach of planning regulations regarding change of land use (from agricultural to recreational). This permit is subject to review by Council officers. The new permit does not allow use of the land for 'play and pay' purposes, but no doubt there will be a liberal interpretation of the rules by Tom and his paying 'guests' and it'll be business as usual, at least in the short term. Despite rumours to the contrary, the site is currently open, confirmed by my wife who was horse riding on adjacent land yesterday. However, how long it'll stay open is more uncertain. As it is, the Authorities are not best pleased with Tom and there is much history. There have been significant animal welfare issues in the past as well as serious breaches of H&S regs in addition to the planning issues. In addition, the unacceptable behaviour of a minority of users have seemingly been observed and filmed by Council staff and supported by evidence from the police, who have had a regular presence on the public highway leading to the farm as well as by the totally disproportionate number of ambulance and Air Ambulance callouts to the farm. Perhaps, not surprisingly, there seems to be little, if any, support from Tom's neighbours and other local residents, some of whom have made numerous formal complaints. I have some sympathy with Tom from an economic point of view as well as with his battle with the authorities. But I also can't help thinking that perhaps he's also the unwitting victim of exploitation by users who've gone there and behaved in an extremely selfish and disrespectful manner. IMHO two things are clear: (1) things can't continue as they are now and (2) matters seem to be coming to a head. I think it's a clear case of 'watch this space ......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I was there wednesday night till saturday just gone. What a beautiful place. the off roading is fantastic. there is something there for eveyone. the local town is great. the problem there is policing! wednesday / thursday and friday morning we had the place to ourself! then the trouble started. Boy racers and drunks arrived friday night. we were camped on the oppsite side to the house (highly reccomended) and knew they couldnt get to us if the tried and they would of been too drunk to get to us by foot. really worrying times. Thank the lord for the rain which seemed to send them all off! Saturday was totally different the amount of bike for me was a put off! the noise the speed of these guys is imo is the problem. the problem is Tom can not police this on his own and at the end of the day if 20 lads want to get in they will regards of who says no! The police where camped outside on the road which alot of people we spoke to were worried about.. Again in my opinion if your worried then your doing something wrong so shouldnt be there anyways! the police can not do anything to you if you have been on private land so they will only book you or crush your car if your car has a problem or you have no tax / insurence etc! It will be a HUGE shame if this place goes under. all it needs is Policing / security to stop the A55 h0l3s getting in. Tom is a very kind helpful guy. prices are cheap for what you are getting. People talk about the place being so dangerous. thats aload of rubbish. it is only dangerous if your being a total ass behide the wheel. Yes we broke diffs half shafts and the likes but no one got hurt in the slightest. bar my finger opening a tin of tomatos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoggyN Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 At least in places like Australia, Canada and the USA a man can go and drive his vehicle all over the countryside without fear of the Stasi arresting him, fining, imprisoning and destroying his property.The UK has become as nasty little country full of nasty little people who don't know how to mind their own business. No wonder people are leaving in droves The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Laning is not all fun and roses overseas. Read this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 So these guys are whining because they got shot at while off-roading on private property where they had no business being? I would support that in the UK, it would prevent some elements getting us all a bad name. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoggyN Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 So these guys are whining because they got shot at while off-roading on private property where they had no business being? I would support that in the UK, it would prevent some elements getting us all a bad name.Chris No they weren't on private property. They were on government owned (public) land. The shooter had a 'claim' on the land i.e. he had only bought the mineral rights. In any case, blowing a limb off someone who had just got out to point out that they had, in fact, legal right of way is a bit of an over reaction. If that was legal over here, my name would be Stumpy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 So these guys are whining because they got shot at while off-roading on private property where they had no business being? I would support that in the UK, it would prevent some elements getting us all a bad name.Chris There are plenty of landowners in the UK, that genuinely believe we have no business being where we ARE legally entitled to be. And you want to arm them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 There are plenty of landowners in the UK, that genuinely believe we have no business being where we ARE legally entitled to be.And you want to arm them! Quite true. Perhaps I misunderstood the post linked above, I do not have much understanding of what a 'claim' might involve. While shooting people who flout the rules might be OTT I would be happy to see some proper dis-incentive to people just driving where they like, and allowing landowners to shoot them seems disincentive enough. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Quite true.Perhaps I misunderstood the post linked above, I do not have much understanding of what a 'claim' might involve. While shooting people who flout the rules might be OTT I would be happy to see some proper dis-incentive to people just driving where they like, and allowing landowners to shoot them seems disincentive enough. Chris Those that deliberately drive where they shouldn't deserve all they get, agreed. But when most local authorities are confused about the legalities of it all, leaving it to armed Landowners wont improve matters. Many Landowners already claim the council/maps are wrong. It wont be much consolation to your family to know you WERE in the right place when ya brains are all over the windscreen. Whilst I agree with your (tongue in cheek?) sentiments, the real answer to the problem lays with the Govt's ever more restrictive and confusing legislation, and a reluctance by the police and LAs to adequately and consistently deal with the law breakers, both drivers AND landowners. If every legal unsurfaced road was properly recorded there would be no excuses, then the full weight of law could be used against offenders. If anyone deserves to be shot it's the lazy incompetent authorities that have allowed the present situation to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old leafer Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 has any one offer to help tom i do not go there but there seems to be a people who like the place if any one could contact him i am sure that even if he had suport via email to the relevent people in the council may help his case to many places like this are disapering and it would be a shame to let another one go with out a fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llanigraham Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Old Leafer, yes help has been offered in the past but has not been taken up. Even the CC have pointed him in the right directions, but he is very much "old school" and likes to do things his way. I don't think emailing the Council will make any difference in this case as it is now in the Court's hands. Edit: the Police were on the approaches to the site last weekend, and speaking to one of the local "boys in blue" they will be checking all over Easter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWills Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Wow. Looks like changes are imminent at Tom's Farm. Hopefully it will survive, in one form or another. I have been, only the once, but had planned to return sometime in June. From reading this thread it seems we were lucky on our visit, we practically had the place to ourselves and even on the weekends saw only 20 or so other users, from which there was no trouble or 'mis-behaviour' what so ever. We had a fantastic time, enjoyed some excellent off roading and even better views. Other users were friendly, as was Tom and his wife. The site is extensive and we travelled 150 miles to stay for the best part of a week. Whilst pay and play days are also a frequent endulgence there is something extra about the notorious Tom's Farm. Part of the attraction is the fact that there is no tractor to recover you, and no cafe to have lunch in. Its not marshalled, there is no H&S, you are responsible for you own safety and well being. Hmmm, perhaps that's the special ingredient. I guess its down to the user to engage one's brain, act accordingly, and enjor responsibly. Oh well, I guess 99% of us will have something taken away by the other 1% as per usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Animal cruelty charge: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2006594.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 different farm and (I think) different farmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llanigraham Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 "William John Jones, 55, of Cwm Farm, Blaen-y-Coed, Carmarthenshire, was sentenced to six months in jail suspended for two years. " Wrong name, wrong address, wrong county. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco tony Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 "William John Jones, 55, of Cwm Farm, Blaen-y-Coed, Carmarthenshire, was sentenced to six months in jail suspended for two years. "Wrong name, wrong address, wrong county. and only 7 years ago!!!! Friday, 24 May, 2002, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiFonics Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I should be a detective On 27/10/06 Llandrindod magistrates handed out a jail sentence to a Rhayader farming couple banned for life from keeping sheep, cattle and pigs after causing unnecessary suffering to sheep on their farm. Farmer Thomas Steven John Breese (64) of Cwmderw, Pantydwr, was jailed for 11 weeks. His wife Elizabeth (63) was told: “While he was in prison you will be deemed to have sole responsibility. If you are brought before the court again you can guess what the consequences will be.” At an earlier hearing at Merthyr Tydfil Crown Court, the Breeses lost an appeal against their conviction and were given seven days to clear all livestock off their land. The court was told sheep at the farm had to be destroyed by vets because they were emaciated, anaemic, had lice and were too weak to stand. The court was also told both Mr and Mrs Breese have previously been subject to banning orders. Mr Breese was banned from keeping bovine animals and sheep for five years in 2001, and Mrs Breese was banned from having custody of bovine animals for five years in 2004. The judge dismissed the appeal on four charges relating to four specific animals, and ordered the couple to pay £5,500 costs at £500 month. At Llandrindod, Mr Breese was ordered to continue to pay the £250-a-month half share of that. Mrs Breese was ordered to continue to pay her half share, plus an additional £400 costs imposed by Llandrindod magistrates, still at £250 a month. Her existing community order for unpaid work was revoked, and a new one of 200 hours imposed. 121 Mrs E BreeseCwmderw Pantdywr Rhayader LD6 5NB 21-Mar-05 Caused unnecessary suffering to sheep. Protection of Animals Act 1911. Prosecution Reported in: Mar-05 Date of Hearing: 07-Jul-06 Place: Merthyr Crown Court Plea entered: Not guilty – Appeal against conviction and Banning Order – Dismissed Costs Awarded: £2750 122 Mr T S J Breese Cwmderw Pantdywr Rhayader LD6 5NB 21-Mar-05 Caused unnecessary suffering to a sheep. Protection of Animals Act 1911. Prosecution Reported in: Mar-05 Date of Hearing: 07-Jul-06 Place: Merthyr Crown Court Plea entered: Not Guilty – Appeal against conviction and banning order – Dissmissed Costs Awarded: £2750 123 Mrs E Breese Cwmderw Pantdywr Rhayader LD6 5NB Between 20-Mar-06 and 06-Sep-06. Had custody of sheep in contravention of Banning Order. Caused unnecessary suffering to sheep. Protection of Animals Act 1911. Prosecution Reported in: Sep-06 – Dec-06 Date of Hearing: 24th Oct-06 Place: Llandrindod Wells Magistrates Court Plea entered: Guilty Penalty: 200 hours Community Service Costs Awarded: costs of £400 124 Mr T S J Breese Cwmderw Pantdywr Rhayader LD6 5NB Between 20-Mar-06 and 06-Sep-06. Had custody of sheep in contravention of Banning Order. Caused unnecessary suffering to a sheep. Protection of Animals Act 1911. Prosecution Reported in: Sept-06 – Dec-06 Date of Hearing: 24-Oct-06 Place: Llandrindod Wells Magistrates Court Plea entered: Guilty Penalty: £0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llanigraham Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Why? The above corrects an incorrect posting earlier with the EXACT details of past actions against the land owners of Cwmderw Farm, otherwise known as Tom's Farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waveydave Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 "Forgive me if im wrong, but hasn`t this thread gone slightly off topic?" Not realy just putting to gether the reason why Toms's has been closed down as some people seam to think theres nothing for Tom to answer for. Basicly as far as i can see a lesson on how not to run an off road site ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyzeus Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Basicly as far as i can see a lesson on how not to run an off road site ! Or it would seem a farm either........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Mistreating animals to the point of prosecution is a very bad indictment in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Enough has been said for now, so I am closing this topic! If there is any Land Rover pertinent news regarding Tommy's Farm please start a new topic. Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts