A way forward, at last.

[steve_d]

As many already know there are issues over many of the vehicles we as a group run. If the vehicle has been modified, and in particular if the chassis has been modified in any way, we must inform the DVLA.

If you inform DVLA they will most likely require the vehicle to take, and pass, an SVA test. The crunch is that there is no SVA group the vehicle can be tested under so it has to (by default) take the Enhanced SVA (ESVA) test.

ESVA is primarily for imported production vehicles and requires you to demonstrate, by way of paperwork, that the vehicle complies with all the EC regulations. It is obvious that this is not going to be possible.

As a result people are just not telling the DVLA and the vehicle remains illegal and could be impounded and crushed. At the same time insurance is no longer valid.

During a recent browse of the IVA manual I detected a very subtle change in some wording compared to SVA.

As a result I phoned VOSA and spoke to the technical advisor and had my discovery confirmed.

The wording is as follows:-

C. Amateur Built

Amateur Built is one which is substantially constructed, assembled or structurally modified by the constructor (or others acting on their behalf) for personal use by the constructor.

The critical bit is 'Structurally modified'.

The guy at VOSA confirmed that this was specifically intended to encompass bobtail and trayback type modification of vehicles. He went on to say that you would still need to photographically convince them of amateur build but this need only include the cutting and shutting involved and not chassis up build.

He even agreed that if I were to buy a bobtail already modified, but not declared, this could still be possible if the photos were available.

This is, I believe, a great step forward even though the test is not easy to pass it is possible and will render the vehicle completely legal.

I have further info regarding replacement chassis numbers and Light Goods vehicle testing which I can go into later but this will do for the moment.

Steve

[Retroanaconda]

Sounds good. So if I plan to in the future trayback a 90 or whatever (not that I would want to, but that's beside the point), and that involves modifying the chassis then so long as I ensure it's built well and sensibly, take photos to prove so, and keep in line with all the relevant legislation, then I can have myself a fully legal vehicle.

As you say, finally we have some progress, and a change in legislation that makes a bit of sense

[FridgeFreezer]

Good find Steve - you'll have to stop this "useful factual post" stuff, it'll never catch on

[Les Henson]

This is, I believe, a great step forward even though the test is not easy to pass

I have a draft copy of the SVA manual, and have read it a few times now - with regards to those sections of it that will affect my build. The manual seems to me to be more of a 'how to pass the test'. rather than how the previous SVA manual was laid out. If you constantly refer to the IVA manual while building or modifying your vehicle, then I don't see that you would have many problems. I think it's when you do things that may fall into a grey area that might cause you problems.

Les.

[neb]

sounds good, much clearer.

i bought my truck as a bobtail, didnt have a clue about sva at the time, but have reworked it, rechopped and added a straight section of chassis to the rear. its nearly finished but the bit that concerns me though is the photographic evidence that its amateur built, i carried out all the work in a garage and took lots of pictures but as its in a garage does this still fall under amateur? im definately a complete amateur and dont work for the garage, its me fathers, im just a student at uni.

[Mark]

modified by the constructor (or others acting on their behalf)

I can't see that you would have much of a problem either way given the wording above. So long as you have the evidence of the extent of the modification, whether you did it yourself, or paid someone to do it for you, you should be OK.

Mark

[Les Henson]

I think the definition of amateur is important - in a garage would be fine - providing it wasn't a garage owned by a company that does this sort of work as it's core business (pro build is a different thing I think). Pictures would just clarify things I think.

I've removed the shock mounts and engine mounts, but didn't take any pictures, but perhaps this won't matter as long as I show the 300TDi ones fabricated on the bench and then welded on. I think that pictures only give the DVLA guidance on whether the vehicle needs an IVA or not.

Reciepts are a critical thing as well it seems. No reciepts and it looks like it'll never get on the road (so it doesn't matter if you came by the parts honestly). Apart from my chassis and cylinder head, everything else will have a reciept from various private individuals, so I hope this doesn't matter or else I'm wasting my time and an awful lot of money

Les.

[Retroanaconda]

I don't want to sow the seeds of doubt Les, but I would think that a reciept for your chassis would be something they'd be looking for. To prove it's origin etc.

Then again, no-one can say for sure. Only way to find out is to try it

[Les Henson]

No-no, what I meant was that I have business reciepts for the chassis and cylinder head - all other parts are from private purchases.

Les.

[Retroanaconda]

Ah, my mistake. No worries then I should hope

[dees]

So do we think, then, that if you're prepared to go down the IVA route, reciepts and pictures wouldn't be so much of a problem? For example, I'm building a 100" which I'm quite prepared to IVA. I bought the vehicle ('82 rangie as donor) as stripped and shortened. Since then, I've galv'd it, and am building it up. I have no reciept for initial purchase, although the V5 has been changed to my name, and it is SORN'd, and have no photos of the initial fabrication work (although I've got shed loads of the subsequent build up).

As I understand it, if I put it through IVA, no probs, as it is proving the original identity that is the important bit. As an IVA'd vehicle, it would get a new VIN number and Q plate. Have I got my understanding right? I suspect the only way to know for sure is to speak to DVLA/VOSA!

Cheers

Dunc

[Daan]

So do we think, then, that if you're prepared to go down the IVA route, reciepts and pictures wouldn't be so much of a problem? For example, I'm building a 100" which I'm quite prepared to IVA. I bought the vehicle ('82 rangie as donor) as stripped and shortened. Since then, I've galv'd it, and am building it up. I have no reciept for initial purchase, although the V5 has been changed to my name, and it is SORN'd, and have no photos of the initial fabrication work (although I've got shed loads of the subsequent build up).

As I understand it, if I put it through IVA, no probs, as it is proving the original identity that is the important bit. As an IVA'd vehicle, it would get a new VIN number and Q plate. Have I got my understanding right? I suspect the only way to know for sure is to speak to DVLA/VOSA!

Cheers

Dunc

If you have the V5 of the donor, and you use all the parts of that, you dont need receipts for these parts. If you use all the parts of that donor, you wont need a Q plate either.

Daan

[Les Brock]

If you have the V5 of the donor, and you use all the parts of that, you dont need receipts for these parts. If you use all the parts of that donor, you wont need a Q plate either.

Daan

If you have Modded the chassis it still goes on a Q

[dees]

If you have the V5 of the donor, and you use all the parts of that, you dont need receipts for these parts. If you use all the parts of that donor, you wont need a Q plate either.

Daan

But the chassis has been modified, (landy mounts, cut down at the back end), so irrespective of whether I've used the rest of the bits, I'd still need an IVA. That was the problem with Bish's motor wasn't it? As it happens, it'll have had replacement engine, box, new brakes, master cylinder, etc, so might not gain enough points to not need IVA. And I can't believe that you can plonk a landy body on what used to be a rangie, and not say it's radically altered! B)

[steve_d]

So do we think, then, that if you're prepared to go down the IVA route, reciepts and pictures wouldn't be so much of a problem? For example, I'm building a 100" which I'm quite prepared to IVA. I bought the vehicle ('82 rangie as donor) as stripped and shortened. Since then, I've galv'd it, and am building it up. I have no reciept for initial purchase, although the V5 has been changed to my name, and it is SORN'd, and have no photos of the initial fabrication work (although I've got shed loads of the subsequent build up).

As I understand it, if I put it through IVA, no probs, as it is proving the original identity that is the important bit. As an IVA'd vehicle, it would get a new VIN number and Q plate. Have I got my understanding right? I suspect the only way to know for sure is to speak to DVLA/VOSA!

Cheers

Dunc

If the chassis has been modified then you will first need to demonstrate the origin of the chassis by way of both the V5 and the chassis will need to be inspected by DVLA. They will then need to allocate a new VIN number which you will stamp into the chassis alongside the original which you will strike through but not obliterate. You will need to do the same with the VIN plate under the bonnet.

After IVA it will most likely get a Q plate.

Steve

[Les Henson]

A different body doesn't matter (as long as it's fixed on properly). Cutting/significantly altering a chassis

requires it to be inspected for safety/standard of workmanship/roadworthiness/other road users/pedestrians safety, etc, etc. I think an IVA test (and pass), will automatically qualify the vehicle for a Q-plate/new identity - even if the points are still in your favour. As far as I know - pictures and reciepts are only sent to the DVLA, who then decide if you can take the IVA test. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are booked for the IVA, turn up and the vehicle is tested as it's presented.

Les.

[steve_d]

A different body doesn't matter (as long as it's fixed on properly). Cutting/significantly altering a chassis

requires it to be inspected for safety/standard of workmanship/roadworthiness/other road users/pedestrians safety, etc, etc. I think an IVA test (and pass), will automatically qualify the vehicle for a Q-plate/new identity - even if the points are still in your favour. As far as I know - pictures and reciepts are only sent to the DVLA, who then decide if you can take the IVA test. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are booked for the IVA, turn up and the vehicle is tested as it's presented.

Les.

Receipts will most certainly be required by DVLA and photos would help.

Photos will have to be sent to VOSA with the IVA application. Amateur build status is their classification so you have to convince them before they will agree to you taking a test. Once agreed they will ask you to contact the test centre to arrange a suitable test date.

Steve

[stuck]

As there have been changes am I still right in thinking that I don't need either a IVA or SVA for my pickup?

Chassis hasn't been modified in any way.

Thanks,

Mick.

[steve_d]

As there have been changes am I still right in thinking that I don't need either a IVA or SVA for my pickup?

Chassis hasn't been modified in any way.

Thanks,

Mick.

Instruction leaflet INS160 that you get with your V5 says you must inform DVLA of any changes to the vehicle. If the changes are not covered by any of the boxes on the V5 you must still tell them by way of a letter.

Quite what constitutes a change you need to inform them about I can't say but a body change or body mods would be high up on the list.

It would be my understanding that an IVA would not be required but if you have changed something like the body then they may want it to have a VIC inspection.

Steve

[doda456]

This sounds like amazing news, and has somewhat increased the chances of me actually doing a bobtail, I will be watching this thread and updates with interest

Dan