Les Brock Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Its just not running right It was fine with the old snorkle on and the usual size ducting. I've moved the snorkle to the back and its now 3 inch tube right the way through to the turbo.. Its seems however down on power, on the motorway I need to keep it on boost and foot to the floor and even then with full boost (1.1 bar) I cant get the EGT to go over 550 degs Star wheel is where its been for ages at 90 Degs clockwise. Concentric wheel to the richest position. even on the normal road its get up and go seems to have got up and gone ! Soooo.......with now presumably more air going in, and i'm presumably still not getting enough fuel, any suggestions (other than adding 4 cylinders and changing fuel) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troddenmasses Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Definately don't change to petrol - diesel is definately the fuel of the Gods. The first thing that I would do is to prove to yourself that it is the new air ducting - I would just detach it from wherever it goes into your engine (filter / cleaner maybe) and then test it again. That way you could prove that nothing has happened to your engine in the mean time, and that the problem is definately in the new bit. If that is the case, I would be attaching a section at a time to see where the restriction begins - it could be at a corner for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 could just be the longer air duct is causing the fault. I'd go with Trodden's idea & disconnect each bit & then find out what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 its not air, the fact your making the same boost tells you the engines getting the air it wants... for a given engine, if your developing 1.1bar at the inlet valve, then regardless of wether the turbo has a cone filter directly on the inlet or several miles of pipe is irrelevant, as to produce 1.1bar the turbo will just work a bit harder. I would look at fuelling. Oh and everyone knows V8's are the way to go, they're just scared of the fuel bills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milemarker Type S Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 What have you done about air filters Les? Do you have one at the end of the intake as well as the original in the engine bay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 Cheers for the replies so far, The turbo spools up no problem, so I dont think its a lack of air, the only filter is the one on the raised pipe Its all 3 inch tube with proper silicon bends. Where as the old one was a disco air filter, cobbled together pipe work, that went from the top of the cage, into the filter, all across the front of the engine and then down to the disco egine tdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I reckon it'll be the same with your snorkel disconnected. I also reckon there's a hole somewhere in the pipe which carries boost from the turbo / manifold to the injector pump - the turbo will spin freely, you'll see no black smoke and it won't make much power but it'll be the same as it ever was on pull-away. Mine melted on sommat hot, and it's now re-routed. Otherwise, start changing fuel filters. It must be fuel, a lack of air would give black smoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderman Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Cheers for the replies so far,The turbo spools up no problem, so I dont think its a lack of air, the only filter is the one on the raised pipe Its all 3 inch tube with proper silicon bends. Where as the old one was a disco air filter, cobbled together pipe work, that went from the top of the cage, into the filter, all across the front of the engine and then down to the disco egine tdi I did the same to mine Les ,Havent had chance to give it a proper run yet but it seems to have more bottom end grunt when driving up and down the yard . Mind you I did do away with the intercooler so it may be less lag but I cant see that making hardly any difference . So I would agree with the other comments about fueling and boost control as John mentioned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ1 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 When you were fitting everything u didnt knock off the small pipe that goes from the turbo outlet around to the pump? Just a idea might not be getting the fuel to match the boost. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 examine the boost small bore pipes from holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 Right had a play today... Pipe is fine and no holes bar one at each end Out of interest turned the star wheel another 90 degs, made a hell of a difference to the on boost pick up, tad smoke as it was spooling up, but not excessive Foot to the floor on hills, fair bit of smoke, but still seems to lack power, boost 1.1 Bar, EGT still maxes out at 520 degs, on the flat you can get the EGT higher Seems to pull like a train to this point and then just run out of oommmppphhhh. As the concentric cone is already set to the richest position, I might try a bit more on the star wheel, does not seem to be pushing further down much from the standard wear mark or try the max fuel on the back of the pump, as it has been adjusted before I got the engine, measuring it against the Disco one it already seems to have been wound in slightly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Seems to pull like a train to this point and then just run out of oommmppphhhh. Sound just like my problem tdi, i've not been able to cure it yet, but if you do, perhaps it'll give me some more ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Les- if you want to drag it down to Bristhole I'm happy to have a look at it with you - I'm on your side of town. Drop me a pm and I'll chuck you my phone number. I think if you keep winding the fuel up without finding what's wrong it could become a very expensive game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5 power Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 hi just a quick thought are you getting max throttle on the injection pump when your foots to the floor ie is the cable adjustment right. my only other thoughts are what condition is the air filter in as it now seems to be lacking air at full throttle as you have black smoke and have you checked the timing if its injecting to late then there may not be sufficient time to ignite and burn all the fuel. hth matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 Turbo....might take you up on that, Tomoz I'm going to replace all the tube from the waste gate right through to the pump to see it it makes any difference Looking at the concentric the wear mark goes just under 3/4's of the way up the angle, looking at the one on the disco it goes a lot further up....so boost might not be pushing it far enough down... If anyone is feeling brave and fancy's pulling there pump apart could they please measure the distance between the very bottom of the plunger to the top of the wear mark for me I'tll at least give me some idea how far up the wear mark should be, I'll check the distance of mine in the morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 any step felt on it ? if there is a slight step it maybe preventing full movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Drakeford Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Hi all.. Have been having a twiddle about with my pump today and although i didnt measure it my mark on the plunger only goes what looks like 3/4 of the way up. There is a plastic washer at the top of the plunger cone, so i tryed taking it off, went for a test drive and checked it again and it had made no difference to how far up the plunger the pin went, it sounds as though my pump is very similar to yours Les in the fact it only go's 3/4 of the way up the cone. As taking the plastic washer off made no difference, then does anyone know its purpose? Many thanks Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 If you were to increase the boost past normal levels, that plastic washer would act as a stop so the pump doesn't continue adding extra fuel. Removing it is part of the pump tweaks you can do to extract extra power from the motor. The travel down the cone is set by the spring preload (star wheel?) and the boost pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted May 5, 2009 Author Share Posted May 5, 2009 Right bit of replumbing, and at the same time took this out.... and put this one in... Thought it might be a tad more accurate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUYZER90 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Right bit of replumbing, and at the same timetook this out.... and put this one in... Thought it might be a tad more accurate As you know Les im new to this TDi lark but it would'nt be the fuel lift pump would it, just wonderd if the pump is getting enough fuel at high revs, tell me if im talking carp wont you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 Righto...... Bit more info... Went for a try eventually tonight with the new guage in 1st/ 2nd, hard on the go pedal...right off the end of the scale 3rd hard to the floor, id say it was hitting the in" sign just 4th floot to floor uphill, about 0.9Bar these are at the inlet manifold not at the wastgate So...whats going on there ? tell me please if I'm getting this round my head If I'm over boosting, then effectivly, the diafram will be going down to far, therefore to much air for the fuel pin, even though its would round to the richest setting.do no more fuelk to burn but loads of boost But in 4th, the boost cant be pushing the diafram down far enough therefore, lack of fuel, and to produce more boost it needs to burn more fuel... So what to do.. Wind out the boost doofer rod to lower the max boost at the wastegate Can't give it more on the diafram to up the fuel Max fuel screw it exactly the came distance out of the pump as the Disco, so thats not giving it extra fuel No coughing and with me booting the whassit out of it, stopping and then checking, no air in the fuel filter etc, so it cant be gettng short of fuel from the pump Smoke screw set as standard, do no early fuel at low boost Puff of black smoke on start fire away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 i dont know the scale to understand what "right off the end" and the "in" mark is, however the default pressure on a 200tdi is 0.9Bar, so it would seem things are working just about right in top gear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 ok re reading that i can see you've posted a pic of the boost guage, off the end of the scale would seem to me to be about 1.5bar, and the in" mark is something like 1.2 bar? I'm wondering if the actuator rod has been fiddled with previously to provide more boost? if its making 1.2bar in 3rd then then only reason it would make less in 4th is if it was running out of fuel. Whats the condition of the lift pump and filter like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 If you look at the new guage above, off the scale...is going back round to zero on the bottom of the guage is the Lb/in" it was just hitting the In" bit Edited....cause you've seen it Checked the fuel filter and in nearly new Lift pump is unknown...but with thrashing it and stopping pretty quick at the top of a loooonnggggh hill, there is no air in the filter when you open the bleed screw, where i'd expect some if it was not pushing enough fuel up ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 well isnt it possible that it could be just not pumping sufficient quantities of diesel? The filter will act as a resovoir when you first boot it, but then prolonged accelleration/use will mean your relying on the lift pump keeping the flow going... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.