Do new springs settle?

[Anderzander]

I've just fitted some HD std height springs and fitted my winch and bumper (minus wire rope at this stage) and it seems to be sitting a lot higher than I expected it to.

Will the springs settle to a lower height?

[simonr]

Yes, all springs settle - it's a feature.

By how much depends on many different factors so it's hard to say by how much and over what period.

Si

[Anderzander]

Thank you!

[GBMUD]

I've just fitted some HD std height springs and fitted my winch and bumper (minus wire rope at this stage) and it seems to be sitting a lot higher than I expected it to.

Will the springs settle to a lower height?

I was going to do the same on my 110 but discovered that they were likely to offer too much lift for me. I ended up using Discovery spring isolators with the original springs to compensate a little for the extra weight of the winch.

Chris

[Anderzander]

What kind of winch have you got Chris?

According to superwinch my set up weighs 48kg and the bumper 25kg ...

I've started a thread called 'winch fit' and you can see in that though how high it is.

[Aragorn]

defender HD springs will lift the truck about an inch, minus whatever the winch lowers it by.

[GBMUD]

I have a TDS in a winch cradle - picture in Nige's winchbumper thread - weight similar to yours at a guess. The springs are (I think tired) NRC8044/45 which are the original for my 110.

Chris

[BogMonster]

Yes, all springs settle - it's a feature.

By how much depends on many different factors

Yep

E.g. if they are orange its about an inch a week I think

[Anderzander]

I guess the other factor is that I have the original springs still on the back - and after 10 years they'll have maybe sagged a bit.

I think its worth throwing a matching pair of new springs on the back when I get round to fit the new dampers and mounts.

Might work out quite well in fact. I posted recently that the front has two NRC9448's on as I'd not been sent a NRC9449. So I can perhaps buy 2 NRC9449's and get a proper set up.

[SteveG]

What height of lift are you looking for?

Even with your winch I reckon that your front springs will result in a ~1.5" lift. 9449's will give you ~1" lift. You can measure between your upper and lower spring mounts, I suspect that with current set up your measurement will be 295-298mm. With the 9449's it will be about the 285mm mark, maybe slightly less as your winch is about 10-15KG heavier than my set up, so ~2-3mm less on a 225 lb/in spring.

What springs do you plan to use on the rear?

Cheers

Steve

[Anderzander]

Morning Steve

I'm a bit lost with it now then! I was planning to have no lift.

I was told that these, with the weight of the winch should return me to a standard height. I thought I'd read that 9448's (or a 9448 and a 9449) would give an inch of lift without a winch.

Help!

I've read your set up a few times. I thought you were running almost no lift too with the same springs on the front?

[Aragorn]

they're pretty much the same length as the standard front springs but are 225lb instead of 175, a lift is inevitable...

9448/9's however are just standard 90 rear springs, so i guess you could chuck them on the back, and get some different fronts?

[Anderzander]

The ride has become very firm, not sure what I think about it - how do you think it would work if I put the standard springs back in but with a RR rubber thingy to put a bit more height on the front?

Would I end up with the standard height but also the same spring compliancy?

Or if I put a new 9448/9's on the back would it end up level?

[SteveG]

9448's and 9449's are HD rear springs for a Defender 90 not front springs. Here is a standard HD 90 set-up as was on my 90 truck cab from the factory..

RH Rear NRC9448 Blue/Red 15.31" 225 lbs/inch

RH Front NRC9446 Blue/Green 15.19" 175 lbs/inch

LH Rear NRC9449 Yellow/White 14.80" 225 lbs/inch

LH Front NRC9447 Blue/Yellow 14.80" 175 lbs/inch

Now I use 9449 Yellow/white on the front of mine and 9448 Blue/Red with a RR spring isolator on the rear to give a 1" lift all round, not standard height. What tyres are you running? With the Gwyn suspension set up you'll have a lot more flex and if, like me, you want to run 33" tyres you'll need a lift to give your tyres enough room in the rear arches.

If you want standard height then you can use the 9448's you have in the rear. Fit 9446's in the front. Your winch and bumper weighs ~160lbs, so your front springs will lower by ~23mm, so you may need two RR rubber spring isolators, one on top and one on bottom each side to bring height back up to standard for HD suspension. They are about £5 each IIRC. It's not normally exact, so fit and measure.

Cheers

Steve

[BogMonster]

9448's and 9449's are HD rear springs for a Defender 90 not front springs.

Right and wrong

The 9448 & 9449 are also factory fitted as front springs on some D110 if specified with 3500kg suspension, and to the front of all D130 vehicles. I now have them on my 110 and they are excellent for a 110 but I previously had them on the front of my grey 90 and found them too high (about +3" IIRC) and too hard.

[Anderzander]

Thanks everyone.

Steve, at the moment I am running 265/75 x 16, so about 31 1/2" tyres. Just less than 1" more clearance than your tyres.

I'm very tempted to just replicate your set up as it only requires buying 2 springs and 2 isolators and I know it works, but ....

I'm not sure if it would be too firm for me though. It feels very firm at the moment with the 225lb springs.

What are the standard LR90 springs? Is there a spring I could put in the front that would just cope with the weight of the winch, but give me my standard ride?

I've never seen the isolators - I presume they fit above the turret rings? or they'd fall when the spring dislocates.

[Aragorn]

They are not Defender 90 HD rears, They're standard 90 rears, or HD FRONTS for a 110 or standard fronts for a 130

90 HD rears are NRC9462 and NRC9463

[Anderzander]

I got that:

std fronts are 9446 and 9447

std rears are 9448 and 9449.

Is there a way I can calculate what the drop will be from my winch ?

[SteveG]

I'm not sure if it would be too firm for me though. It feels very firm at the moment with the 225lb springs.

What are the standard LR90 springs? Is there a spring I could put in the front that would just cope with the weight of the winch, but give me my standard ride?

I've never seen the isolators - I presume they fit above the turret rings? or they'd fall when the spring dislocates.

Personally I prefer the ride, as with the harder springs up front you have a lot less pitch and dive than compared to standard springs. I also find the handling is more stable under braking for corners, roundabouts etc. But it's a personal choice so go with what you are more comfortable with.

Two possible springs that are close to 175 lbs/in rating of the standard front springs and should give you close to standard height with your winch are...

NRC4234 16.20" 170 lbs/in

NRC8113 16.47" 180 ibs/in

** providing data on shaw page is correct of course.

The isolators fit on top of spring and have an inner lip to hold them in place so are fine if spring dislocates.

They are not Defender 90 HD rears, They're standard 90 rears, or HD FRONTS for a 110 or standard fronts for a 130

90 HD rears are NRC9462 and NRC9463

All I know is that if you ordered a commercial TD5 90 with HD suspension it comes with 9448 and 9449 on the rear. So irrespective of what the shaw page says, LR considered them to be 90 HD rears.

Cheers

Steve

[Anderzander]

More questions please!

What difference in height do the spring isolators that Chris mentioned give?

I've done a search on here and got two figures (for front ones) 8mm and 20mm ....

how much would 160lbs compress my standard 175lb spring?

[SteveG]

The ones I've used are the RR ones, ANR2938 and they are ~12mm thick. pic here...

Others like Chris have used Discovery ones that have a longer lip so help if spring dislocates slightly. I don't know thickness of these, but I suspect it's similar.

Lastly your 175 lbs/in springs will compress an inch for every 175lbs of load. So your winch and bumper are ~160lbs so ~23mm

Cheers

Steve

[Anderzander]

Now I’m a bit confused …….

If the standard spring length is 15.19” and 14.80”

The NRC 9448 is 15.31” and 225 lbs

The winch set up is 160 lbs

160 / 225 = 0.71” – so under the load of my winch the 9448 will compress is 0.71”

15.31” – 0.71” = 14.6”

which infers that laden with the winch the front end should be lower than it was before?

What am I doing wrong?

[SteveG]

What am I doing wrong?

not accounting for the weight of the vehicle

Steve

[SteveG]

so a quick calc

standard springs are 175 lbs/in and longest is 15.3" free length. A standard 90 has a gap between top and bottom spring mount of 260mm, so a compressed spring length of 10.23". So spring has compressed by ~5.07". Which equates to a load of 887.25 lbs. As both springs are sharing load it would be double across front axle, so 1774lbs and ~ 806Kg which sounds about right.

So given same load of 887lbs the 9448 spring would compress by 3.94", so compressed height of 11.26", 286mm, so a 1" lift.

All above is theoretical of course and based on shaw page numbers.

Cheers

Steve

[Aragorn]

the maths look fine to me, and thats pretty much what i got when trying to calculate out some stiffer springs for the front.

You say your winch will compress the springs by 23mm, however i'm not sure if the value you provided for the weight of the winch was the entire weight or half of it...

if the winch and bumper weighs 160lb, each spring is only taking half of that, meaning 80lb... which is 0.44" or 11mm

if you want the standard ride height and standard springing then you need a set of springs that are around 175lb and 0.44" longer than the stock springs, or as the chaps have pointed out, some standard springs with 12mm thick isolators between the spring and the top mount.