diesel66 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Hi, I'm wanting to start this transplant this week and just wanted to access any guides or tips gleaned from others who have done this already. I am aware of having to move drivers side engine mount, but what is the best method of achieving this? Bolt it all together "fit" engine tack in place remove engine & weld up? Any other options? Any guidance gratefully received. Many thanks and kind regards, Diesel66. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Or to reduce the number of in and outs of the engine, remove the existing r/h chassis bracket & change the r/h bracket on the existing engine before removal to jig the new chassis bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henk Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 To make life easier, I also removed the battery tray (but I have a LHD) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I did mine the 'too complicated' way. I believe you can cut the old mount off and turn it upside down, but I've never tried it. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel66 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 Hi, thanks for the replies, I have managed to remove the old 2.25 & transferred the ancillaries over - inlet & exhaust manifold etc., but think that if i had a 2.5 drivers side bracket / mount, the cutting and re welding would be simpler (my abilities are not up to Les' welding) Does anyone have one they could sell to me? Foolishly, I was working on the premise that the series mounts were going to be appropriate to adapt (by necessity as I don't have the 2.5 brackets / mounts.) Also, has anyone pics of the fuel lines to filter from the injector pump? Just to try to get it sorted in my head before cutting. splicing or replacing lines. Thanks again for any advice or info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww188/C...3A1/After-2.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel66 Posted May 15, 2009 Author Share Posted May 15, 2009 Hi, thanks for the fuel line pic very useful! Do you have a pic of the mount under the injection pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 No cos its a Sherpa lump on the original series mountings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirstybeast Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I used the defender engine bracket and a military V8 chassis bracket from a 110 cut of an old chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel66 Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 That's definitely a really neat solution. I'm stuck though, as I have neither of the parts needed. Local supplier have said they can get the engine bracket for £30! Engine only cost me £50. So a bit miffed. Will persevere, sadly britpart engine mount is so misshapen I'm further delayed. Thanks again for all the replies. Quick extra point in the second pic showing the fuel pipes; which pipe goes to which side of the filter? Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriebil.dk Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Hi Diesel66 I did my 88" from a 2,25 petrol to a 2,5 N/A some years ago, can't tell much about the wiring and fuel lines, i made all mine from nothing being a petrol. i used the engine mounts from the old engine. i think it was like this. the exhaust side mounts are just swapped over and the chassis fits as is. the batteri side, i kept the 2,5 engine mount and cut the chassis mount clean off, and one of the battery tray legs aswell. then i welded the spare engine mount to the chassis ( i don't remember from which place it came, but the angle was just right for the battery side engine mount of the 2,5 N/A) then i made a new leg for the battery tray and kept it in place. lowering the engine in place we just pushed it a bit to clear the tray. The cut off and battery tray leg - no comments on the welding, still learning And the engine in place hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 The spare engine mount would have been the R/H engine bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrage Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Hey all, Easiest way i've found for the engine swap is to use the 2.25d drivers side engine bracket (shown in Les's 4th picture) turn it upside down and bolt/weld that to the chassis. and use the correct 2.5d engine mount (shown in Thirsty beasts 2nd picture) on the engine a standard rubber mounting inbetween fits perfectly. I've fabricated my own chassis mount on one of my landies and to be honest it wasn't worth the pain and effort getting the angles right verses spending money on a 2.5d engine mount which hadn't come with the engine. plus, like me if you haven't got access to power/welder etc you can use a long bolt through the chassis into the bracket to hold the bracket on TEMPORARILY to get you to the welders. Best Regards, Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicks90 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 one thing to note about the 2.5nad - the glow plugs operate at 12v and not 4v like the 2.25d you currently have fitted. there is a little box of tricks on the bulkhead that alters the voltage to 4v for your glow plugs - bypass it and you will get 12v to the 2.5nad glowplugs. i wondered why it was such a bitch to start over winter after having it first fitted, then someone told me about the voltage difference. Did the change and it fired up much better after 5 seconds of glowplug!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel66 Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 Hi all, the fitting is going ok, engine is in but as yet not started, as I managed to shear a thermostat housing bolt & then a drill bit in the remains of the bolt, so waiting on the arrival of a carbide burr to attack it with. Otherwise I think it's going ok! I'm a bit flummoxed by the throttle cable arrangement, as the cable I have seems far too long i.e. the adjustable end that attaches to the crank then threaded rod on the distributor pump has no travel to take up the slack to allow it to engage. It also wont fit into the slotted bracket spacer. Has anyone a picture of how it should be. I am starting to think thast although I checked pert numbers there is just a generic type now supplied as opposed to a specific 2.5 na one? Many thanks for all the replies & help it's much appreciated. Please keep them coming. Kind regards, Diesel66. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 If you look at my photo i have a rod from the pedal shaft direct to the lever on the injector pump, thats nice and simpler than cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettS Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I plan on putting a 2.5NA into my Series 3 88 next month. I was just wondering what clutch I need to use. The 2.5 clutch or the old 2.25 unit? Or is there a difference? I was thinking the 2.25 is the one to use with the Series 3 gearbox. I also read in an earlier post that the 2.5 intake and exhaust manifolds were swapped for the 2.25 items. Is this necessary or can the front exhaust pipe just be modified to fit the 2.5 manifold? Thanks Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I used the throttle link rod - the same as Phil did. This is it and the shape it has to be - Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrage Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I used the throttle link rod - the same as Phil did. This is it and the shape it has to be - Les. That's quite injenious! I seem to have used the more unsightly method of fabricating a bracket and using a rod off the throttle shaft to pull the cable - may have to change it so it's like that. Cheers, Lee edit to add: its in the top right hand corner of the image - never liked it from the day i bent it but it does work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel66 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 Well it's up and running & all is fundamentally ok! The engine seems to be in good order - pulls nicely and a whole range of noises I had thought were my gearbox, transpire to be the old engine being in far worse order than I thought! The throttle linkage arrangement is via a rod link direct to the cam on the injection pump & essentially works well but needs slight adjustment as I top out at 56mph with some free arc remaining. I retained the series fixed fan, intake & exhaust manifold and I'm utilising the air oil bath filter, managing to also retain the battery tray. So to a cursory eye it all looks as it should. The main issue is that after being stood overnight air is getting into the fuel system, causing me to have to bleed it before the first journey of the day, subsequent starting is super and almost immediate with negligible heat required, research so far suggests that it is likely to be the lift pump, is this correct? Maybe prematurely I've bought the kit that allows adaptation of the later 200 tdi lift pump but I'm unsure as to which pipe replaces what etc. Has anyone any experience of this kit? (STC1190) Just to say a huge thank-you for all the guidance and help without which I would have been scuppered! Kind regards, Diesel66. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serious2a Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Hi, Diesel66 - Good to hear you've got it more or less sorted! I've been eagerly following this thread from the start. But BrettS's question about which clutch to use hasn't been answered. I too, am on the eve of installing a 2.5 (TD) into my S2a. I don't have a 2.5 clutch but there is a good 2.25 one already with the smaller engine, and I naturally would like to use this. Will it be up to the job? I'd like confirmation of this before proceeding, otherwise it is somewhat of a gamble. Next and perhaps more importantly. I do NOT intend to cut off the existing r/h chassis engine mount unless I ABSOLUTELY have to, but instead fabricate up an adaption to fit onto the engine to mate up with the 2.25 chassis mount as is, if this is practicable. Why? - well it's the old business of not wanting to burn my bridges. I have had a Perkins Prima in the S2a for a few years now and it is a very good engine so I want to retain the ability to refit it at any time in the future if I decide to do so. It means I can also go back to a 2.25 with no inconvenience either, as both use the original chassis mounts unadulderated. So, the question is - has anybody done this and inform me of the practicality of doing so? (The actual steel fabrication presents no difficulties welding-wise, etc). Otherwise like most things, I'll just have to go it alone and see if it can be done. Thanks in anticipation...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel66 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 Hi serious2a, yes the 2.25 clutch is the one to use if you are bolting a series box to the back, as the splines on the 2.5 friction plate are finer & more numerous. I have 2a diesel cover and friction plate and the clutch has been perfect. As far as the mount goes you sadly don't have the option of retaining the existing chassis mount as the 2.5 injection pump on both the n/a & turbo sits too low for there to room for both. The neatest solution I think, is to retain the block bracket on the 2.5 as this neatly goes under the pump, cut the existing chassis mount away completely and reuse the drivers side 2.25 engine bracket inverted and welded onto the chassis, the angles and spacing are then all correct. Sadly I didn't discover this until I had already chosen the cut away, measure, cut away a bit more, then re-weld method! So far I'm very pleased, the engine, luckily, seems healthy & even with the mishaps it has been cost effective. Just got to change the lift pump which seems to have objected to being put back into regular service! Good luck with the transplant & kind regards, Diesel66. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Simple if you wish to refit the 2.25, just use the engine bracket from the 2.5. The tapped holes in the two blocks are in the same place. You want a 2a diaphragm cover as the 2.5 flywheel has 3 clutch cover alignment dowels just like the series with the diaphragm clutch.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serious2a Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Thanks Diesel66 & Phil Hancock for the clutch info - much appreciated. However this is the lesser of my two main problems. I did a physical check today having got hold of a 2.5 r.h engine mounting bracket which I prieviously didn't have. I now see what the other guys were talking about. I, (very sadly because I did not want to) will have to 'butcher' the r.h. chassis mount - there is just no way around having to do this. I confirmed it by trying to 'apply' a standard r.h. 2.25 mount (3-pieces - the bracket that fits to the engine, the rubber mount & the small tapered bracket that bolts to the chassis mount) to the 2.5 engine, but this cannot be done and shows clearly that the 2.25 chassis mount would foul the bottom of the injection pump - no two ways about it - and so ends of hope of not having to cut and weld the chassis! Mounting the engine 'nose up' to circumvent the problem is NOT an option I would entertain. As I said in an earlier post, I've no problem doing this alteration but it's going to make returning to the Perkins or 2.25 into another special adaption fabrication, should I ever want to do this. Oh well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henk Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Thanks Diesel66 & Phil Hancock for the clutch info - much appreciated. However this is the lesser of my two main problems. I did a physical check today having got hold of a 2.5 r.h engine mounting bracket which I prieviously didn't have. I now see what the other guys were talking about. I, (very sadly because I did not want to) will have to 'butcher' the r.h. chassis mount - there is just no way around having to do this. I confirmed it by trying to 'apply' a standard r.h. 2.25 mount (3-pieces - the bracket that fits to the engine, the rubber mount & the small tapered bracket that bolts to the chassis mount) to the 2.5 engine, but this cannot be done and shows clearly that the 2.25 chassis mount would foul the bottom of the injection pump - no two ways about it - and so ends of hope of not having to cut and weld the chassis! Mounting the engine 'nose up' to circumvent the problem is NOT an option I would entertain. As I said in an earlier post, I've no problem doing this alteration but it's going to make returning to the Perkins or 2.25 into another special adaption fabrication, should I ever want to do this. Oh well.... I've put also a 2,5D in my 88 that has a galva chassis. Starting point was not to cut thr rh chassis mount but after trying lots of rubbers etc, the injection pump still hits the chassis mount sometimes so at the end I cut it off last month. Engine now sits normal and fan does not hit plastic either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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