Poly bushes and leaf springs

[tony109]

When I mensioned fitting Poly Bushes to the series 2A landrover I was told that this is advised against.

Well with the poly bushes I bought i did ned to mak a few minor alteations to the center tube lengths in order to allow the bushes to work as I imagined intended.

After a few months running with them and rocky mountain parabolics they have been seen to work very well.

So what are the views or experiences had by people who've fitted poly bushes to leak sprung Land rover?

[FridgeFreezer]

I'm running Paddocks cheapy Deflex "poly" bushes and they seem to do OK, although I did have to put a substantial washer on the inset side of the front spring shackles as the bushes were walking out over the boss on the shackle. Considering the beating my truck gets, if they were going to fail they would've done by now.

I did destroy stock (Range Rover) rubber bushes in my anti-wrap and have now gone to genuine Polybush reds (it's not a part that should see much/any flex in the bushes) so we'll see how they last.

[Betsy]

I have polybushes in my parabolics, and they seemed ok, but when I replaced the rear springs recently, I noticed that the sharp end of the leaf, inside the hole in the spring where the bush sits, had been cutting into and rotating the bush. This had over time completely destroyed the bush. I replaced them with standard steel cased land rover bushes. There seems to be no difference in the ride.

Poly bushes are probably better fitted to the chassis mounts, as they are easy to remove in the future, but I would not use them in the springs again.

[tony109]

Mine are Deflex Bushes also..

I did have to get longer center Bush pins, otherwise the shackles would clamp on the Bush flanges before clamping on the center pins themselves. This leaves the center bush pins are free to turn inside the bushes. I added washers between the swinging shackles and the bushes to prevent cutting by the shackles and spread loads.

Polys' should last alot longer than the bonded rubber bushes, but the ride is virtually the same.

I went for the poly bush (Deflex) option as with a Galvanized chassis, fitting the original bonded rubber/Steel bushes would have meant honing of the bush tubes in the chassis, and I didn't want to remove any galvanizing and compromise the Zinc protection with rushing steel bush sleaves.

[Phil Hancock]

All this talk about having to add washers between the bushes and the swinging shackles, when i had my genuine orange polys from Chris Perfect they came with the washers for the swinging shackles.

[Gremlin]

I run them too, no ill effects, it makes changing bushes a breeze! the only place i do not run them is in the front chassis bush, i found that as they wear the springs tend to move about when you steer, not a good thing!

What i would like to find is greasable bolts to go with the series shackles, they would extend the life of the bushes.

G

[Betsy]

I run them too, no ill effects, it makes changing bushes a breeze! the only place i do not run them is in the front chassis bush, i found that as they wear the springs tend to move about when you steer, not a good thing!

What i would like to find is greasable bolts to go with the series shackles, they would extend the life of the bushes.

G

I can't see how that would help?

I thought the bolt through the shackle was supposed to clamp the bush centre tube tightly between the shackle plates, so all the movement was in the rubber between the outer and inner tube. If the bush is loose because the centre tube has worn against the bolt/shackle, then the bolt was not clamping tight enough.

Grease may stop it seizing up when the time comes to change it though.

[tony109]

The fact that the center tubes are not bonded would in theory allow them to move sideways in the Bush.. As standard, shorter bush tubes are provided meaning that as soon as the shackles were clamped tight it was the bushes being squeezed before the center tubes were clamped.. The bush flanges would then take all the side ways thrust until they wore away.. Since every time the shackle moves would place a shearing force on the flanges, their life would be limited.

Adding longer center tubes means the center tube is clamped tight before the bushes are.. As the New bush tube is 'slightly' longer than the bushes when tight in the chassis this allowed half the thickness of a washer to be sat onto the tube ends each side. When the shackles are tightened to clamp the center tube, the washers pinch the bushes tight in the chassis and act as a rubbing surface between the shackle sides and the bush, and any Sideways thrust, from steering, flexing of the springs etc, is taken between the bush tube in the chassis and bush flanges. Spreading sideways thrust over a large area and should extend the life of the bushes.

Front Axel location is solid and should remain so as long as the rears... Only time will tell

[Gremlin]

Greasable bolts go with poly bushes not standard bonded items.

G

[Gazzar]

Greasable bolts go with poly bushes not standard bonded items.

G

I'm a bit thick this morning, please explain it to me?

In a standard bush the outer metal tube is an interferance fit with the chassis, and thus doesn't move. The inner tube is clamped by the shackle bracket, and again doesn't move (relative to the shackle bracket).

The only movement is the metastatic rubber in the bush, right?

How do poly bushes differ?

Also, WHAT holds the rear door hinge panel upright on that 109? And are the doors original or modified? Please - more pictures of that!!

G.

[tony109]

I'm a bit thick this morning, please explain it to me?

In a standard bush the outer metal tube is an interferance fit with the chassis, and thus doesn't move. The inner tube is clamped by the shackle bracket, and again doesn't move (relative to the shackle bracket).

The only movement is the metastatic rubber in the bush, right?

How do poly bushes differ?

Also, WHAT holds the rear door hinge panel upright on that 109? And are the doors original or modified? Please - more pictures of that!!

G.

Poly bushes simply press into the chassis by hand.. A steel center tube for the shackle bolt then passes through the center, although this is a tight fit.. The shackles clamp the center tubes tight and any movement made by the shackles will be on the center tube which, unlike the bonded rubber bushes arefree to swing inside the poly bushes.. With lots of spring articulation, Rubber bushes do suffer and are torn where as the polybushes are free to move as required.

As the bushes are in two halves, which don't meet in the middle, the gap remaining acts as a grease resovoir for the tube and bushes.. You could make a bolt with a grease nipple and drilled channels, but you'd also have to drill the inner bush tube.. Drilling a sufficiant size oil channel in the bolt could weaken it, 'but it would probably cope' under normal circumstances.. At the end of the day, with the polybushes running on a very smooth steel surface and with the bushes packed full of grease during instalation, this may be the more reliable option.. I did concider drilling to make greasable, but dicided it see how well the 'polys' performed first.

[tony109]

Also, WHAT holds the rear door hinge panel upright on that 109? And are the doors original or modified? Please - more pictures of that!!

G.

The original middle center pillar is full height. With the roof removed the center pillars remained sticking in the air, so didn't look particularly good.

I didnt want to cut these pillars, . so I made my own half height pillars. These tie to all the orignal mounting points as well as having a sturdy base which bolts to the center sills. Dispite having no roof support they are rigid in all plains, and the rear doors hang from these. The rear doors are made from a rotten full height rear passenger doors.. The door skins were used and I made new steel Door bottom frames.

All steel work has been galvanised along with the original full height pillars which can be easily refitted to the galvanised box section sills when required.

[Gremlin]

Here you go, they say a picture tells a 1000 words................

Just push the old ones out and in with the new, no sweat, it take 5 mins per bush.

G

[Betsy]

I never greased my polybushes when I installed them, except for a bit of copper grease on the bolt. Should I have done?

[Les Henson]

Yes, some poly bush kits come with a sachet of what looks like CV grease. Any grease will do I think with the exception of coppaslip (I think).

Les.

[seven]

The original middle center pillar is full height. With the roof removed the center pillars remained sticking in the air, so didn't look particularly good.

I didnt want to cut these pillars, . so I made my own half height pillars. These tie to all the orignal mounting points as well as having a sturdy base which bolts to the center sills. Dispite having no roof support they are rigid in all plains, and the rear doors hang from these. The rear doors are made from a rotten full height rear passenger doors.. The door skins were used and I made new steel Door bottom frames.

All steel work has been galvanised along with the original full height pillars which can be easily refitted to the galvanised box section sills when required.

How did you made the rounded part of that pillar?

[seven]

As the topic starter, I was advised not to use polybushes. Because I am doing a complete rebuild of my landrover I still have the option to use the polybushes I got from bearmach. So my question is what would you guys do; put them in or leave them out; or maybe the bearmach bushes -see photo- are carp anyway (like the replacement frontdoors)?

oh, since I saw these nice photos of the b-frame; is it normal to have them welded to the sill?

[tony109]

As the topic starter, I was advised not to use polybushes. Because I am doing a complete rebuild of my landrover I still have the option to use the polybushes I got from bearmach. So my question is what would you guys do; put them in or leave them out; or maybe the bearmach bushes -see photo- are carp anyway (like the replacement frontdoors)?

oh, since I saw these nice photos of the b-frame; is it normal to have them welded to the sill?

Those Bearmach bushes look the part.. I'd fit them as only then will you know if the tubes are correct length, etc.. I'd assume they are looking at the pics.

The b-frame (b-pillars) in the above pics are bolted to the sills, which are no longer the light 'U' section original, as this had rotted away years ago.. Instead the sills are box section and the Pillars bolt onto this.. As standard the pillars were welded to the sill

[Les Henson]

I fitted Bearmach blue ploys to my 109 - they lasted a year

Les.

[Phil Hancock]

On a station wagon the B post is an integral part of the door sills and the lower half of the C post.

[tony109]

As standard the pillars are welded to the sills.. The original sills are pretty flimsey items but with the roof support the pillars and sills are tied together.. Without the roof support the doors and pillars would become jelly like.. I have new sills made from 3mil box section and the pillars bolt to these, so both half and full height pillars can be interchanged.

The barrel side effect was produced by profiling the shape on the side faces leaving the outer edge to follow the profile shape.. Both bulkhead door pillars are made the same way with the addition of the vent panel angle on the side profile

[tallergypsy]

In my experience the only advantage to polybushings is that they are easy to change. The original bushes in the RM parabolics have a lot of rubber and give a much quieter and more durable ride. Not such a pretty colors however and not supported by flashy advertising.

Ray

[tony109]

..

[tony109]

In my experience the only advantage to polybushings is that they are easy to change. The original bushes in the RM parabolics have a lot of rubber and give a much quieter and more durable ride. Not such a pretty colors however and not supported by flashy advertising.

Ray

Polybushes aren't that much easier to change.. Changing the original bonded rubber/steel bushes were very simple to change, and with the tool I made I could draw them out in minutes..

The Deflex bushes were chosen because their fancy advertising gave a price i really liked!

The main reason why Deflex bushes were chosen and fitted was on account of having a Galvanized chassis. Fitting bonded rubber bushes would have ment honing out excessive zinc from the bush eyes in the chassis in order to fit them. I was not willing to do that as it would defeat the object of the galvanising.

I was not fooled by the fancy colours available either.., although I must say the fancy orange and greace colours do match my finger nails. The RM springs on mine have the bonded rubber bushes in the spring eyes as the spring eyes on the RM springs are unique to the springs. So I had to buy new bushes from RockyMountain for this. Not expensive.

Since fitting the bushes Im happy with the ride, which is as good as it was before, and no drastic change noticed. However, Flexing the springs and seeing the bushes unstrained is very reassuring. Axel location is possitive and even though the bush center eyes are not bonded there is no room for the axel to move sideways as it is physically stopped by the spring shackles running on effective thrust bearings on the sides of the chassis bush eyes

As I said before, only time will tell what the real advantage with these Polybushes are but for me the advantages have been very clear.

[Johnstar]

Poly bushes simply press into the chassis by hand.. A steel center tube for the shackle bolt then passes through the center, although this is a tight fit.. The shackles clamp the center tubes tight and any movement made by the shackles will be on the center tube which, unlike the bonded rubber bushes arefree to swing inside the poly bushes.. With lots of spring articulation, Rubber bushes do suffer and are torn where as the polybushes are free to move as required.

As the bushes are in two halves, which don't meet in the middle, the gap remaining acts as a grease resovoir for the tube and bushes.. You could make a bolt with a grease nipple and drilled channels, but you'd also have to drill the inner bush tube.. Drilling a sufficiant size oil channel in the bolt could weaken it, 'but it would probably cope' under normal circumstances.. At the end of the day, with the polybushes running on a very smooth steel surface and with the bushes packed full of grease during instalation, this may be the more reliable option.. I did concider drilling to make greasable, but dicided it see how well the 'polys' performed first.

Hi Tony, I'm about to do this, what sort of grease should be used?

John.