Jump to content

Engine Bays and a Garden


Recommended Posts

Ok, I'm starting to get myself prepared for the transplant of the Disco 200 TDi into my 110 and wanted to ask for some advice.

The 110 has been unloved and unattended for some time and when I tried to start it I remembered one of the reasons I am doing the transplant..the CAV fuel injection pump leaks so I can't get fuel to the injectors to start the engine.....which gives me a problem of how to drain long standing cold engine, gear box/transfer box and axle oils. Any ideas on how to safely warm those parts and drain the oils? :huh: - Some thing that it might be worth mentioning here is that the 110 is standing on my garden and not on any nice hard standing or in a garage or in the luxury of one of those swanky 'work shops' (just envy speaking there! :rolleyes: )

Whilst I have the engine bay decluttered :D I was thinking of painting it and the chassis underneath? I presume Hammerite wouldn't be of any use because of the heat generated :( but what are the alternatives? Also probably a thing of personal choice I know but is it better to go for a light colour rather than a dark one - light colours I guess would show up mud, rust and oil escapes better?

Is it worth taking the opportunity and adding sound deadening/insulation? I know there are a number of manufacturers so if any one has had good or bad experiences with any let me know which ones.

All I can see is this job taking me ALOT longer than I expect it to...let's just hope we do in fact have that hot summer that the weather guys have been promising :D

Finally I have been trying to get to the bottom of some thing since I acquired my 110. That is to say what is difference between a 110 and a Defender? Is there any? If so what is it/are they? Is the 110 just a throw off from the Series IIIs and live test before the Defender was born? Sorry is this shows my ignorance but I'd rather be told than never to have asked ;)

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Defender was basically the name that LR gave to the 90/110/130 in about 1990 ish, make it sound more modern.

As for getting it running, why not crack off the injector pipes at the injectors, use the lift pump to prime the system, then retighten them and try to start it off a very well charged battery, it should fire up.

Hammerite should be ok in the engine bay, you may get some problems by the exhaust manifold with heat, although you could use high temp paint down there.

TBH though, i wouldn't worry too much about draining the oil out of the old engine anyway, as it's coming out. Wait until the new one is in before doing the axles/box etc, at least you can get them warm on a test run then.

You say it's on the garden? How are you planning to get the old lump out, and the new one in? As you are going to need a hoist of some description.

Sound deadening is personal choice really, but i would think along the bulkhead is the best place, along with the underside of the bonnet. You could always do the inside of the bulkhead, under the floor matting, although if it gets wet, then you will effectively have a soggy sponge rotting the floors from the inside. Spray on underbody shutz has some sound proofing properties, so it could be worth spraying the underside of the cab area with that, whilst it's dry.

There is an excellent guide in the tech archive to converting to 200tdi power, well worth reading. Some of the steps can be altered to suit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

110 vs defender - just a marketing change in the late 80's I believe. No physical difference whatsoever - apart from the badge.

Mark

Ah marketing and a badge..should have known they would try and get more money for the same thing ;) .

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought the Defender name was introduced with the release of the Discovery, so as to give the simple 'Land Rover' range a model name.

Best of luck with your conversion :)

I Have read the above in one of my land rover books. Ialso belive that along with the defender name, was that the 200 tdi engine was introduced.

GOOD LUCK with the conversion. I guess that not having a workshop at least keeps in theme with the "fixed any where" reputation that the early land rovers had so you are keeping up the land rover spirit!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Defender name was introduced along with the 200Tdi engine when it was fitted to 90/110, main reason was to identify the 90/110 range as a seperate model as Land Rover was now the Brand name in it's own right & the vehicles all had identies within the brand also to get joe public [us] to call the 90/110 a Defender instead of using Land Rover for the utility models.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i thought that 90/110 as opposed to defenders still had sIII lift handle doors and the hard tops had the rubbish ribbed sIII esq roofs?

please correct me if im wrong as im quite interested to know now

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Defender was basically the name that LR gave to the 90/110/130 in about 1990 ish, make it sound more modern.

As for getting it running, why not crack off the injector pipes at the injectors, use the lift pump to prime the system, then retighten them and try to start it off a very well charged battery, it should fire up.

Hammerite should be ok in the engine bay, you may get some problems by the exhaust manifold with heat, although you could use high temp paint down there.

TBH though, i wouldn't worry too much about draining the oil out of the old engine anyway, as it's coming out. Wait until the new one is in before doing the axles/box etc, at least you can get them warm on a test run then.

You say it's on the garden? How are you planning to get the old lump out, and the new one in? As you are going to need a hoist of some description.

Sound deadening is personal choice really, but i would think along the bulkhead is the best place, along with the underside of the bonnet. You could always do the inside of the bulkhead, under the floor matting, although if it gets wet, then you will effectively have a soggy sponge rotting the floors from the inside. Spray on underbody shutz has some sound proofing properties, so it could be worth spraying the underside of the cab area with that, whilst it's dry.

There is an excellent guide in the tech archive to converting to 200tdi power, well worth reading. Some of the steps can be altered to suit.

It just goes to show when you think about things too much you miss the obvious! Swapping the engine then going for a test drive and then doing the oils for axles and box, genius :)

Yep as I'm in the garden a hoist is going to be the weapon of choice - a neighbour has one he said I can borrow which is nice and convenient

The Shutz stuff I had never heard of before but a quick search on the web revealed the secrets so that is a definate possibity. Don't think I'll go for any thing on the floor in the cab as I don't want any thing else helping to rot my Landie :lol:

If you mean Les' guide I have already printed that out ready to use so at least I have some one else to blame when some thing goes wrong! :blink: - not that I would Les :rolleyes:

Thanks for the assist much appreciated.

Well I just hope all those who are the proud owners of 'working' Landies are going to be enjoying them (responsibly) in this GORGEOUS weather..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I Have read the above in one of my land rover books. Ialso belive that along with the defender name, was that the 200 tdi engine was introduced.

GOOD LUCK with the conversion. I guess that not having a workshop at least keeps in theme with the "fixed any where" reputation that the early land rovers had so you are keeping up the land rover spirit!

Thanks for the update on the Defender name

Believe you me I would much prefer to have the nice cosy garage/workshop that alot of the forum members have if only to reduce the amount of time that I can't do any thing because is it pouring with rain!

Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i thought that 90/110 as opposed to defenders still had sIII lift handle doors and the hard tops had the rubbish ribbed sIII esq roofs?

please correct me if im wrong as im quite interested to know now

That fits more with what I have found trying to get parts the 110 as it seems have some bits from the sIII - as you say the lift handle doors and ribbed roof. Also annoyingly it seems to have some oddities in the engine bay as well..but those sorts of anomolies will stop and all my dreams will come true when the 200 TDi goes in :rofl:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

good luck with the conversion - it really is worth the effort!

For what it's worth I managed to get the old lump out and the new one in within a day - plumbing took a little longer :ph34r:.

I managed to get hold of some chain blocks from work, so I had one slung from the garage roof for the 'up and down' and one pulling 'horizontally' the length of the garage to move the truck in and out ;). That coupled with the fact that once the truck was in the garage doorway the only in and out was either over the top or underneath, made for quite a spectator sport :lol:.

Just bare in mind that with all the ancillaries still attached the lump will weigh over 200Kg - I'd make sure that you have some sort of hard-standing prepared or your hoist/lift will sink and you'll be going no-where!

Assuming your throwing a disco Tdi in - make sure that you do any work needed in the N/S wing area before fitting as there is no room to get at anything once the Tdi is in.

As always if you have any questions or need any pictures just ask!

Dave.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Assuming your throwing a disco Tdi in - make sure that you do any work needed in the N/S wing area before fitting as there is no room to get at anything once the Tdi is in.

Especially the downpipe off the turbo :)

are you using one of the disco into defender kits off ebay for the exhaust? well worth the money, as it saves having to muck about cutting and welding the exhaust, and it comes with some swanky silicone hoses too :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i thought that 90/110 as opposed to defenders still had sIII lift handle doors and the hard tops had the rubbish ribbed sIII esq roofs?

please correct me if im wrong as im quite interested to know now

No civilian Defender 90/110 has lift up door handles from new, only military Defenders have these, but not all military Defenders are factory built, some are bought from the factory as normal station wagons/hardtops or picj ups & keep the push button handles.

my 1989 110 is not a Defender it has the push button handles & windy up windows, they became Defenders for the 1990 model year when the 200Tdi was fitted to 90/110, & are still reffered o as Defender 90 or Defender 110.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Especially the downpipe off the turbo :)

are you using one of the disco into defender kits off ebay for the exhaust? well worth the money, as it saves having to muck about cutting and welding the exhaust, and it comes with some swanky silicone hoses too :)

Most definately will be using some thing like this one: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...52BSI%26otn%3D4

Yes the tightness of the near side fit does worry me :huh:

The guy seems to have a good a rep so unless some one else has any suggestions or comments I think I will be another ebay customer - if only just for the swanky blue silicone pipes!. If I had the tools, suitable garage/work shop and experience to make them then I would but currently skilled enough :(

Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

good luck with the conversion - it really is worth the effort!

For what it's worth I managed to get the old lump out and the new one in within a day - plumbing took a little longer :ph34r:.

I managed to get hold of some chain blocks from work, so I had one slung from the garage roof for the 'up and down' and one pulling 'horizontally' the length of the garage to move the truck in and out ;). That coupled with the fact that once the truck was in the garage doorway the only in and out was either over the top or underneath, made for quite a spectator sport :lol:.

Just bare in mind that with all the ancillaries still attached the lump will weigh over 200Kg - I'd make sure that you have some sort of hard-standing prepared or your hoist/lift will sink and you'll be going no-where!

Assuming your throwing a disco Tdi in - make sure that you do any work needed in the N/S wing area before fitting as there is no room to get at anything once the Tdi is in.

As always if you have any questions or need any pictures just ask!

Dave.

Yep the weight of the lump does worry me :( and I doubt I'll have any thing as sophisticated as your set up for up and down and in and out so it will definately be an event to watch...

As for the n/s wing I'm hoping that whist difficult I will have done the required work, painting, prep and got the right bit (e.g. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...52BSI%26otn%3D4 ) to make it relatively simple :blink:

Will most definately be asking as and when I cock up and need guidance!

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No civilian Defender 90/110 has lift up door handles from new, only military Defenders have these, but not all military Defenders are factory built, some are bought from the factory as normal station wagons/hardtops or picj ups & keep the push button handles.

my 1989 110 is not a Defender it has the push button handles & windy up windows, they became Defenders for the 1990 model year when the 200Tdi was fitted to 90/110, & are still reffered o as Defender 90 or Defender 110.

The 110 has windy windows (and they even kind of work) as well as the lovely lift door handles. When did the one piece doors come into being and on what model? Not that it makes any difference to me just curious...

Thanks for all the info...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 110 has windy windows (and they even kind of work) as well as the lovely lift door handles. When did the one piece doors come into being and on what model? Not that it makes any difference to me just curious...

Thanks for all the info...

wind up windows & lift up door handles were used upto the 1097 model year then for that year the push button handles & one piece doors were fitted to all variants of 90 & 110.

a good 90/110 history book is Land Rover 90 & 110 1983 - 1990 by James Taylor, published by yesteryear books, ISBN 1-873078-17-X

you might be lucky & find one on ebay

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The practical side of things.

With the engine cold and standing for a while most of the oil will be in the sump anyway. You should be able to drain what is in there to start with. Just be prepared to leave it dribbling for a while.

Due to the weight of the lump and that the hoist/gantry/crane is going to be on soft ground you should make sure that it is standing on timber to spread the weight. Also you will find it easier to lift the engine and then roll the vehicle out from under it. Make sure that you have a trolley or a slidey board on some thick plywood sheets to take the engine away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before you fit the engine, fit the downpipe to the turbo. Use allen headed bolts to hold the downpipe to the manifold or you'll really struggle to get it back off when fitted in the engine bay. I learnt the hard way.

Also before you fit the downpipe to the manifold, wrap it with some exhaust heat wrap. I bought some in blue off ebay for about £16.

I took the old engine out in about 2 and a half hours on my own. Other than the engine hoist I used a basic 1/4 and 3/8 Halfords socket set, a set of spanners and a few screwdrivers.

After you've removed all piping and wiring from the engine, and undone the bell housing bolts you can see/reach. Hoist the engine up and then remove the engine mounting rubbers, leave the metal mounts attatcehd to the engine for now. Then lower the engine to the mounts sit on the mounting brackest attatched to the chassis rail. You should now be able to undo the top/side bellhousing bolts.

Once I'd done the timing belt and seals etc to the 200tdi, it was slid in, bolted and wired up in about another 2 hours. The pipe work is the hardest bit, but theres plenty info about on here and other forums. All being well I'll get chance to finish my air filter pipework off tomorrow or monday. I'll take some pics if I get it finished.

Good luck, keep us posted.

Mick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before you fit the engine, fit the downpipe to the turbo. Use allen headed bolts to hold the downpipe to the manifold or you'll really struggle to get it back off when fitted in the engine bay. I learnt the hard way.

Also before you fit the downpipe to the manifold, wrap it with some exhaust heat wrap. I bought some in blue off ebay for about £16.

I took the old engine out in about 2 and a half hours on my own. Other than the engine hoist I used a basic 1/4 and 3/8 Halfords socket set, a set of spanners and a few screwdrivers.

After you've removed all piping and wiring from the engine, and undone the bell housing bolts you can see/reach. Hoist the engine up and then remove the engine mounting rubbers, leave the metal mounts attatcehd to the engine for now. Then lower the engine to the mounts sit on the mounting brackest attatched to the chassis rail. You should now be able to undo the top/side bellhousing bolts.

Once I'd done the timing belt and seals etc to the 200tdi, it was slid in, bolted and wired up in about another 2 hours. The pipe work is the hardest bit, but theres plenty info about on here and other forums. All being well I'll get chance to finish my air filter pipework off tomorrow or monday. I'll take some pics if I get it finished.

Good luck, keep us posted.

Mick.

It's good to know that you managed it on your own with a basic set of tools and a hoist as that's what I'll have :D

I intend to take the old lump out (any nutter want a very good condition 2.5 n/a diesel engine - apart from a leaking CAV fuel pump at a very reasonable price?)

do some tidying up in the 110 engine, painting, sound deadening included, check any other parts attached to the bulk head etc..then lift out the Disco engine and do all the maintenance bits on that like, timing belt and tensioners, removing air con unit (as if a window isn't good enough ;) ) etc etc. Then once I am happy with the engine bay and the 200 engine the I'll be brave and start 'fitting it all back together..and working out how to install the power steering which I might add as a seperate thread for some advice and guidance...or should I ask in this thread?? any suggestions

Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pas should be fairly straightforward. swap the steering box over, but make sure you have got the bracket on the 200tdi lump that holds the alt/pas pump - they are horrendous price new circa £100 mark.

we re used the original defender hoses IIRC, for the most part, but i think we had to buy one new hose from the disco pump to the box.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pas should be fairly straightforward. swap the steering box over, but make sure you have got the bracket on the 200tdi lump that holds the alt/pas pump - they are horrendous price new circa £100 mark.

we re used the original defender hoses IIRC, for the most part, but i think we had to buy one new hose from the disco pump to the box.

Will have a look for bracket as I certainly don't want to pay £100! It just so happens that at the last Old Sodbury sort out I went to I got some new hoses ready for when I had the power steering - I even got an excellent pump, bottle, box, rod etc for £25..one of my best bargains. BUt as I have the Disco unit complete I hope that I will be able to use the best of both to make a complete unit..

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Will have a look for bracket as I certainly don't want to pay £100! It just so happens that at the last Old Sodbury sort out I went to I got some new hoses ready for when I had the power steering - I even got an excellent pump, bottle, box, rod etc for £25..one of my best bargains. BUt as I have the Disco unit complete I hope that I will be able to use the best of both to make a complete unit..

Thanks

The pas pipework you bought from sodbury, is it from a 90? If so you've got everything you need. I joined the high pressure pipe from the disco to the exisiting 90 one with an 8mm compression joint on the n/s chassis rail, as recommended by Muther Trucker. Joined easily, just havent got around to bleeding it yet to check for leaks. It should be fine.

If you think of any photos that may help that arent in the tech archives, let me know and I'll take some. Just hoping on some free time when the weathers right to finish things up on mine.

Mick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The pas pipework you bought from sodbury, is it from a 90? If so you've got everything you need. I joined the high pressure pipe from the disco to the exisiting 90 one with an 8mm compression joint on the n/s chassis rail, as recommended by Muther Trucker. Joined easily, just havent got around to bleeding it yet to check for leaks. It should be fine.

If you think of any photos that may help that arent in the tech archives, let me know and I'll take some. Just hoping on some free time when the weathers right to finish things up on mine.

Mick.

Er honest answer is I don't know. Are there any serial numbers/markings etc on the unit or pump that would identify it? If so I'll have a look and let you know. Joining things with an 8mm compression joint sounds a tad technical, does it require special tools? Or is it a part bought from those nice people at Land Rover?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We use cookies to ensure you get the best experience. By using our website you agree to our Cookie Policy