Welding Kit

[MarkieB]

professional welding sites seem to suggest that for welding up to 3mm, then a 130 [possibly even 105] amp rig would do, although the less professional enthusiasts seem to tend to suggest at least 150 amps for a lap weld in 3mm.

I notice that for instance manufacturers making roll cages seem to make them from Eg 3mm wall tube, so 3mm should be sufficient for most purposes, perhaps up to 5/6mm for winch mounts, bumpers etcetera. [obviously there are certain people, naming no names, who favour 10mm ]

really I'd think of investing in the minimum kit that would serve for foreseeable welding on the Land Rover, so basically 130 amps, although I think the local barn has got mini oxy kits for quite reasonable prices, so for the minimal amount of welding I'd ever need, providing oxy doesn't burn holes in thinner metal, that'd be a good idea too

The way it's looking for now, all that I'll have to do is practice, then weld engine mounts on, as the chassis itself was thoroughly repaired/welded at an LR garage at the turn of the millennium according to receipts. Of course, it looks as though welding gets more-ish

[white90]

I got the SIP 196 topmig Turbo

fine for L/R welding jobs unless your HFH then you'll need the 215 model at the very least.

[Les Henson]

If your're welding chassis/outriggers/crossmembers (none of which are 3mm except possibly leaf spring mounts) then a 150amp MIG would be ideal. It's not good for a welder to be used close to it's maximum output, so a few amps above what you will actually use is a good thing. As for oxy-acetylene, if you burn holes it's because you have the wrong nozzle on it, or the gas is too high. You can weld a couple of razor blades together with oxy if you know what you're doing.

Les.

[MogLite]

I've got a SIP 170 pro or whatever its called.

It will do up to 8mm plate acording to the instructions, if you plan on doing a cage you'll need to do 6mm plate, so that works about right.

A good gas - argoshield, makes the welder much more efficient.

I can't run mine flat in the garage, because it trips the 15amp breakers, I need to run a fat extension cable to a 30 amp ring !!

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Hmmpfh to the lot of you ................

The things to also consider on any welder is the actual usable power and how it works, and the "Duty Cycle".

Basically if the welder will weld say 6mm, that is really saying say a 3mm piece of pipe to a 3mm piece of tube - 6mm for full penetration, it does NOT mean a 6mm piece of tube to a 6mm piece of plate etc...

Then the Duty Cycle. If you turn up the power and you then weld something the higher the welder output is the hotter it gets, the closer you get to the max setting the faster it will get so hot as to trip out.

Small welders running high outputs you can find just trip trip and trip again, causing real frustrations, so, buy the BIGGEST welder you can afford, then run it at half power, you'll find it will just keep going .

Other things to consider are :

Ensure it has a "Euro Torch" coupler and this simply means you can replace the torch, a fixed unit is false economy, and lastly ones that ake a full size BOC bottlle (disposables are bl^^dy expensive and don't last long) and a full size wire reel.

If you feeling flush buy one with a cooper transformer too.

ESAB, SIP (grey Models - I have a SIP 230), Sureweld, Cebora are just a few I have used and would recomend.

HTH

Nige

[s2hotdog]

Small welders running high outputs you can find just trip trip and trip again, causing real frustrations, so, buy the BIGGEST welder you can afford, then run it at half power, you'll find it will just keep going .

Too true!

I'm with nige on this get the biggest amp welder you can get I've got a 160 amp mig I was luckey enough to get from a car boot sale for £70 it is ok for 3mm and can cope with a little thicker but not that well but as I'm in the fabrication trade I can get thicker welded at work

Cheers

Steve

[LR90]

Well I'm off to dust of my MIG later today so I'll take a look.

Always liked ARC for the heavy stuff and grew up with Oxy/Acet which is great for light stuff and real fun to use but the MIG (for lighter stuff) wins for me.

[MarkieB]

if you plan on doing a cage you'll need to do 6mm plate

comparing the amount of energy involved in the 2 courses of action, I think I'd rather brake before the turn

that's very good feedback thanks all; rollcages/winches were mainly as a yardstick/ for reference. As I say, with luck, all it would be would be mountings, maybe footwells, possibly chassis up the track, so I may tinker with the mini oxy kit for the time being — of course I'll have to check it's not simply for brazing, as I think the word in French translates as both.

cheers

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

er

Oxy Acet and TIG welding its an "Art Form", do not expect to be able to do quality Oxy welding without training, MIG many learn on a "practise" basis, and some do ok, others still looks horrible.

Oxy and Ali TIG welding - forget it, many prof welders MAKE it look easy, its not, and it does need to be taught IMHO.

Buy MIG, and then contact your local colleage a nmight cousre is well worth it, normally they cover MIG TIG ARC Gas cutting, plasma cutting brazing etc, you won't be certified at the end of it, but your welding will be a whole laod better !

Nige

[BogMonster]

Can't comment on MIG as I have only done it briefly on an agricultural welding course about 12 years ago (and been meaning to buy one ever since....) but certainly with Arc welding the comments about getting the biggest you can manage and running it at lower power are bang on. Modern welders are a bit like electric winches in their rating: if it says 150 amps on the tin it'll do 150 amps but not for very long before it needs a rest....

When I did the above mentioned welding course we had two arc welders: an old 110 amp one from the farm workshop and a shiny Clarke one that was supposedly 180 amps or something. The 110 dated from about 1950, was built like a brick ****house and though it was only about a foot square, weighed about 50kg (you could barely pick it up) while the new one weighed about 15kg. The 110 would weld continuously at its rated output and barely get warm; the other one welding at the same output (which was well below its "max") would last about 5 min of fairly continuous welding and then trip out and need a rest (and that was after the owner had fitted an extra cooling fan into it). Two lessons from that: They don't make 'em like they used to and you get what you pay for!

I'd love to learn oxy acetylene and I think that is the "purest" form of welding but I'm not sure what my insurance company would say about having enough explosive power in my garage to level the garage and several adjacent houses, especially since it's a wooden garage which isn't ideal for welding in anyway....

What are the regulations elsewhere for keeping flammable gases in domestic garages? I have a propane bottle for the heater and the insurers seemed to think that was OK (thought I had better check as I didn't want to find the fire insurance on 10 grand's worth of new garage and 30 grand's worth of vehicles suddenly became invalid because I had a gas heater in there )

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Yep

I used to have "Garage" size Oxy acet in the garage, mate of mine is an insurer, he had a fit, I phoned the insurance compnay the next day - I had 24 hours to remove it or I invalidated the house insurance, also the fire brigade told me a 200 metre cordon is the norm for a fire, as Acet explodes impressively.

I have a oxygen biottle (they are ok with this), and disposable Acet equiv (Mapgas) which I keep at the bottom of the garden, this is good for heating and cutting, just goes through a tin quick but it £7 a tin !, and they are ok with this too. !

SWMBO was none to impressed with this esp with my "Track record"

For cutting plate up to 10mm I use the plasma runing off the 30 amp supply, superb piece of kit !, 6mm is a dream, and cleaner faster and less dangerous than Gas axing !

Nige

[simonr]

Until fairly recently, all I had was a cheap, 150A set (from Screwfix I think).

It did a great job - and I really only replaced it for higher duty cycle. 150A is plenty for anything LR (I very rarely used it on full power).

Whatever you buy, make sure it has the option of taking 5kg (or 15kg) reels of wire. The 500g ones that halfords sell are fine to begin with - but are expensive and don't last long!

Now my old MIG's just sitting in the corner of my garage waiting for someone to give it a new home!

Si

[MarkieB]

Oxy Acet and TIG welding its an "Art

ah well, I'll have to see then. It would be immodest of me to say that my general facility with new skills leads me to think I'd make a good job of it :D

mate of mine is an insurer, he had a fit

pleased to hear it [other than the fact he's your mate]. Hope no-one put a pencil in his mouth to stop him choking on his tongue I've just been trying to get the message across to my obtuse insurers that their prices are sending their customers to the competition; the sheer volume of 'insurerspeak' involved to prevent them from deliberately misunderstanding me, cancelling the policy ahead of the renewal date, reminds me of the reason I hate them.

No, really, the kit I've seen was aerosol sized. As I say, it could have been for brazing, although it was definitely a 2 gas kit.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Sorry should have siad insurance assesor, he the one that stands in the charred remins, looks at the Oxy bottle and goes oooer !

Actaully the 2 top causes of fires in homes is

fags - smoking variety / fall ing asleep

and deep fat chip frying - in a saucepan !

But Oxy acet would invalidate most insurance policies, not to mention invalidating your neighbours, although in one of miones cases thats a "Postive"

Nige

[white90]

my old manager in Colchester was welding the floor of hs mother in laws car

the carpet unbeknown to him had dropped back down inside whilst he was underneath

the ensuing fire destroyed the car his new garage/extension neighbors extension thier car, he was not best of friends with them after this

event and had to move house...

[roguevogue]

Are we going to go through this again?

We should all know by now that the numbers are as good as random unless you know the type of machine being refered to.

I have successfully welded 6mm brackets with my 85 amp bargain cheapo mig, could have done it quicker with a bigger machine, would have been easier with a bigger machine but at the time it was all that was available.

DON'T BUY A HOBBY TYPE WELDER! I mean the type of welder that halfords sell, I won't name brands, don't want to start any trouble.

Instead, spend the same money on a second hand, say 150 amp, professional welder from your local welding supplies place.

You'll get a machine that is fully rebuildable, repairable and uses sensible size consumables.

This is my opinion and I fully hope you all disagree. I have welded for a living for 10 years.

[MarkieB]

I guess it's natural that a few topics'll get re-covered now the archives are gone, that's life. It's good for people such as me who think every question is a new one

The more debate, though, the clearer it all is. I shall just have to get on the learning curve

[Troddenmasses]

Can any of you learned people tell me what is the difference between the SIP Topmig turbo 195 (195 amps - £332) and the SIP Topmig turbo super 196 (195 amps - £419). I think that 195 amps would be plenty for me, but was wondering what the difference was between these two sets, and if the cash difference was worth paying?

I think these people are quite reasonably priced for SIP stuff - I have just bought a 100ltr compressor from them, and am VERY impressed. All that, and they are from my home town of Buxton

Welders

[SteveG]

£87

You can always count on me for a really helpful post

Cheers

Steve

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

SIP Topmig turbo 195 (195 amps - £332) and the SIP Topmig turbo super 196 (195 amps - £419).

Super & 1

I am getting my coat ....along with SteveG

Nige

[Astro_Al]

I second everyone who has said buy the most amps you can - you'll always want more for something, but you'll never think 'hmm, I wish my welder had less capacity'...

Obviously go for a mig welder - not sure what the plasma is on the list for - cutting isn't welding!?! Maybe I need to re-read it! Plasma is GREAT if you are looking at cutting equipment too. I have a smallish one (6mm max with a built in compressor) - very portable. I will buy a larger one with a separate compressor when I get set up properly.

Defo get one (as has been said) with a changeable 'euro torch'. Mine (quite a new one) failed on Saturday and I was left stranded half way through a critical job with no replacement. All the welding places in the yellow pages were closed, but thankfully Andy Sharp from Hampshire Welding Supplies in Southampton was an absolute STAR and opened his shop for me (!) so I could get on with the job. Top guy, recommended. He also made me up a longer earth lead there and then. Obviously this would not have been possible if the torch had been built into the machine.

Also, get some fireproof clothes, I have burnt most of my 'grotty' work clothes up recently. Frankly it's getting expensive (and f'ing painful)!

I go with the vote for a second hand monster welder - I have a very old Cebora which I managed to get free from my old boss. Built like the QE2. Solid.

Note the duty cycle - no use standing around when you want to get on, this is why you should use something not near the limit of its capacity - obviously you *can* use something smaller (provided penetration is adequate), it's just not ideal - which means before long it really gets annoying.

I'd also recommend getting one with an infinitely adjustible power setting - not just a 5 or 6 position switch, but a variable one like a volume control. It's much easier to find the right level.

You absolutely need to use 15kg wire reels and full size gas bottles - none of those teeny ones from machine mart / halfrauds. Get an account at your local BOC.

Al.

[02GF74]

I second everyone who has said buy the most amps you can - you'll always want more for something, but you'll never think 'hmm, I wish my welder had less capacity'...

Obviously go for a mig welder - not sure what the plasma is on the list for - cutting isn't welding!?!

I found that if I set the amps to high on my MIG, it operates very nicely as a cutter, especially with aluminium!

[MarkieB]

Sorry should have siad insurance assesor, he the one that stands in the charred remins, looks at the Oxy bottle and goes oooer ! 

The nice guy who says how much they should make the cheque for. They're much nicer than the horrible folk who take premiums for nothing. please, Mr assessor, sit down, let me take your coat, cup of tea? :D

I could see how you would make such friends Nige

[white90]

to the tech archive

[white90]

Can any of you learned people tell me what is the difference between the SIP Topmig turbo 195 (195 amps - £332) and the SIP Topmig turbo super 196 (195 amps - £419). I think that 195 amps would be plenty for me, but was wondering what the difference was between these two sets, and if the cash difference was worth paying?

I think these people are quite reasonably priced for SIP stuff - I have just bought a 100ltr compressor from them, and am VERY impressed. All that, and they are from my home town of Buxton

Welders

The 196 has over the 195:

spot weld timer

Euro Torch