Unsworth Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Hi all. Got an idea so would appreicate it if some people wouldnt shoot me down in flames I have 4 Land Rovers, a Defender 90, 2A which I restored, a Scrap 109 safari and a also a heap of new spares and old bits that used to be my Series 3 88.. I am posting about my 88, It wa smy first landrover as a requested present from my parents in Xmas 07 being 15 all I wanted was a landy.. I got my wish in the end.. Long story short I paid £300 for this series.. I stripped it down (It used to be a working daily workhorse) This showed on the panel work.. I took the roof and tub off to repair the chassis (MOT failure) and then the tub was nackered so It had all the cappings and valuables taken from it and another was bought.. This also happened with the seatbox, Springs, rear door etc etc.. Till I bought a new mild steel chassis (Modified for offroad use)paid £40 for it along with a MINT S3 bulkhead (£30) from a place I then worked at.. I then scrapped the old chassis and plan to sell on the old bulkhead.. Basically in the end I am left with the Roof, bulkhead, rear axle, wings engine and box and propshafts from the motor (Everything else was rotten or in a poor condition).. Over the last 3 years I have saved up enough bits to rebuild it 3 times over!. I have a lot of new spares I bought for it.. It was an abbandoneed project as I got a complete semi restored 2a which I then worked on as it was easier to finish off in time for my 17th birthday. So I have more than enough bits for a S3 rebuild plus a 109 which has a rotten chassis. I have a Defender which I love and have just put a 200tdi in and am amazed at how well it starts from cold with not glow plugs!. And I have also lived with a restored 2a.. But cutting to the story.. I planned on buying another offroader (Want a Defender truck cab) But they are non existant cheep and theres many horrors lurking underneith cheep motors!. And I have all the stuff to build a solid S3 which will pretty much live forever! My thoughts were as I have 4 Motors and need to downsize ideally.. I dont want to sell the S3 plus the spares I have bought owe me over £2000 and I wouldnt never break even.. I have been thinking about Re-building the S3 to my Spec as I would love a capable offroader and possible daily drive?. So thinking about getting a scrap discovery (Plenty of them ). And using spares from that and creating a spec as followed: - 1970s S3 - New mild steel S3 chassis - Parrabolics - 200TDI Disco engine - LT77 Disco gearbox - "Possible" Discovery axles (Wider track and diskbrakes) - "Possible" Power steering - Standard Series body What are the legallities regarding this specification?. My main wants are the 200TDI Engine and gearbox but PAS and Diskbrakes would be lovely indeed! Plus I will have a solid, rot free and reliable Series rover I can use for Playing at weekends and a possible daily drive if anything happened to my Defender. I dont want to have an SVA but I can do all the mods without cutting the chassis if I dont fit PAS. In effect it would be a Hybrid?. I also have a 2A as mentioned with a 2.25D and 4 speed box and know exactly what they are like.. Lovely as they are but I want something with the classic looks and feel but with a bit more power to use offroad Also if I did this to a tax exempt motor (S2a or early S3) Would I loose my tax exempt status?. Many thanks.. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_P Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 You might not be able to do all of which you mention. On the government website it explains the points based system. You certainly could do the engine, box, parabolics (I think Parabolics are considered original spec anyway). The problem is with the additionals like the axles and power steering, as it leaves you with a total of seven points when you need eight. Ditch the power steering thought and you can then fit the wider axles. I think it would be neat to see another Series-based trialler, if done right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 It sounds like you are tyring to keep the original SIII identity. As long as the new chassis is brand new, unused and of the same spec, then it counts as the original. SO, you need to score three points out of the mechanical components. I'd recommend you forget PAS and fit your original steering (refurbished, of course). That's two points. If the parabolics were previously fitted to the SIII, then you can claim their two points as they're regarded as in-service replacements - they don't have to be factory original, they just can't be brand new. That will give you another two points, exceeding the required total of eight. You can fit the engine,transmission and axles. The only problems is that in fitting the LT77 and LT230, you'll have to modify the chassis' cross members. That would technically lose the chassis' points, preventing you from using the SIII VIN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsworth Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 It sounds like you are tyring to keep the original SIII identity. As long as the new chassis is brand new, unused and of the same spec, then it counts as the original. SO, you need to score three points out of the mechanical components. I'd recommend you forget PAS and fit your original steering (refurbished, of course). That's two points. If the parabolics were previously fitted to the SIII, then you can claim their two points as they're regarded as in-service replacements - they don't have to be factory original, they just can't be brand new. That will give you another two points, exceeding the required total of eight. You can fit the engine,transmission and axles. The only problems is that in fitting the LT77 and LT230, you'll have to modify the chassis' cross members. That would technically lose the chassis' points, preventing you from using the SIII VIN. Right that clears some things up.. Yes I was concerned regarding the gearbox x-member. The idea is not to build a "Pretender Defender". I have a Defender anyway . But Its simply going to be a solid 88 inch series trialler. Plus with Series body work it will be a wolf in sheeps clothing Although fitting an LT77 might mean I will have to bring the engine further forwards and needing a 90/110 front end. It would be a LOT easier to use the original Series 3 gearbox (Which my dad fully re-built) But with it being an offroader its going to get a LOT of right foot action and the 4 speed S3 box is not up to it. Also fitting an LT77 would give me a central difflock which is more of an advantage offroad. I was thinking with the Gearbox mountings about removing the middle gearbox x-member and simply bolting it back on to the Series chassis. (It is bolted on the Disco chassis). Would this get around the chassis modifcation or would it be the same as welding the chassis? Far as I know the 200TDI will bolt straight onto the existing mounts. But doing this would mean with the longer bellhousing on a disco g-box to a defender one. The gear sticks would be in the middle seat box! I can live without PAS so not much of a worry there!. But the Disco axles would be nice but again I can live without them. At the end of the day I want to have a Series rover with bomb proof reliability but want it to be legal and want to keep its original Identity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Dont forget, you cant use an LT transfer box with standard series front axles - you will kill them!! 200TDi needs offside chassis mount cutting off and remaking, nearside is okay. If you use Disco axles, you need to either convert them to leafes, or convert the chassis to coils - if you do thsi, changes are you will get a Q plate and have to pay tax. I've asked all these questions, as my 1971 109 is coming back with TDi and 5 speed, probably with PAS too, and theres no way im Q plating her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 The LT77 can be hookedd upto the the standard SIII Transfer box, ashcrofts do a kit around the £360 mark. LT230 can be used with a standard SIII front axle, you have to modify the box to Rear/four wheel drive, not the locked/unlocked. Best bet I recon is the Series TBox/LT77/200, and not worry with the LT230. unless it wont survive behind the 200?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MECCANO Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 If you chop of the lower web on the lt230 you can get it in with out chopping the crossmemmber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsworth Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share Posted August 19, 2009 Looks like I cracked open a can on worms! Regarding the disco axles, I Plan to modify the axles to take leaves. Its primarily going to be an offroader anyway. But would want it legal and tax free so I can use it in RTV's. So looks like the plan is a go-er then!. Just will have to drop the PAS idea which isnt an issue as I am big enough to turn a series wheel with 265-85's on the other end of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumonkey17 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I used to have a list of the spec of Tonks 2A but lost it when my computer died . Would love to have it again as it was a sort of wish list for my re-build aspirations. As far as I remember it had a 200TDi with most of the other things listed in your original post and a few extras. I think it is now owned by some other lucky forum member now. If anyone has the spec and any info on how it was achieved I'm sure it would help you with your ideas (and mine as they are pretty similar). I'm also pretty sure that it was running on the original plates as well so I'm guessing that it would be possible to keep the tax free status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 well if you convert the axles, you will need to fit wheel arch extensions to pass MOT. Wheen we did the rangy axles, we tipped the diff up to ease the angle on the props. I was not part of the decision to do this, and i would have strongly said 'NO' to it. Having driven and looked after the resulting vehicle for quite some time, and can happily say - i was right! Make sure when you weld the pads for the leaves on, that the diff remains at exactly the same angle as it was in the disco! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MECCANO Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 If you source early series rims, the tires should sit flush with the wing. any other rim has to muych offset and will need arches. Another one for having the diff set at the standard angle. It also helps with prop clearance when running a lt230. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 If you source early series rims, the tires should sit flush with the wing. any other rim has to muych offset and will need arches. Another one for having the diff set at the standard angle. It also helps with prop clearance when running a lt230. I've always wondered at that, the front diff angle om a disco I looks extreme, compared with my 109, how does that work with the propshaft? It isn't a DC propshaft, so how come there is no vibration? G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MECCANO Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Well for a start the disco runs higher ratio diffs so the props don't spin as quickly as a stock series. However saying that, I run my series with standard diffs and never noticed a problem at motorway speeds. ( Yes it can get there, and on private land can carry past that with no issues!!!) That was when i previously ran it on a series gearbox, with a shorter front prop(higher angles) than running with a lt230. At the moment im running with rangie axles, 4.7 diffs, 1.2 lt230, and defender lt77. All powered by the "untaimed beast" that is the 2.25 petrol. I plan to swap out the diffs for 3.5's as its horrendously undergeared. I was planning on fitting a "tweaked 200tdi thats in the garage" but havent made up my mind yet as to go for something a bit more "exciting" and not so damn heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsworth Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 If you source early series rims, the tires should sit flush with the wing. any other rim has to muych offset and will need arches. Another one for having the diff set at the standard angle. It also helps with prop clearance when running a lt230. Arches not a problem mate, I have the ones on my 2a (Series bearmach type) I would simply remove them. Another dilema is how I style the body .... Do I go for the look I love (Painted in orange with a truck cab, roll bar and black wheels.. Or do I go for a "ratty old series look" which will be a "Sleeper" or Wolf in sheeps clothing Its now a case of just getting the motivation to start it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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