jmattley Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 I'm thinking of machining some aluminium wheel spacers in the workshop at uni (I do product design), which has a lovely machine room. We have access to millers with digital readouts where you can program all sorts of fancy shapes and patters. My idea is to: instead of machining some spacers that have studs attached to them like normal ones, instead machine some extra long studs that are 25mm long than standard. (I'd make 25mm spacers). My question is, does anyone know the dimensions of the standard studs and what type of thread they use and if it's actually a good idea to make extra long studs and swap them instead of like on normal spacers. Any other thoughts would be lovely too. Cheers, Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 If you've got access to decent facilities, why not just make the wheels the correct offset? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmattley Posted September 7, 2009 Author Share Posted September 7, 2009 I'm pretty handy at machining, but not a changing wheel offsets . Just thinking of doing it as an alternative to spending £130 on wheel spacers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Given that the spacers you buy have to be TUV tested etc I would check out what requirements there are under C&U regs etc - I suspect DIY stuff might be a problem but then I don't know how the folks who cut wheel centres out and weld them on the wrong way round get by that sort of thing, maybe there is a way round it, maybe they lubricate the MOT man, or maybe they just DGAF! Your spacers will need to locate correctly on the hub centre and provide the correct locating shape for an alloy rim to centre on but other than that I would have thought the basic idea is ok - if anything possibly safer as long as the materials are up to spec as there are half as many nuts to come undone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmattley Posted September 7, 2009 Author Share Posted September 7, 2009 Ok, I'll get looking into the various regs etc. Does anyone know the thread type and size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Need to know what sort of Discofairy you are making them to fit for starters as the D1/D2 are different studs. I have a feeling they are respectively M16 x something and M14 x something off the top of my head, but I don't know what the thread pitch is - it's a fine metric anyway not whatever the standard metric thread pitch is. One of the common ideas with wheel spacers is to convert from one stud size and PCD to another e.g. to allow the D2 type wheels to fit onto a D1, you obviously wouldn't be able to do this with your concept though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 If you really need the offset and have access to the machinery, change the wheel offset, it's got to be a safer option. I wouldn't extend the studs, with a spacer that uses extended wheel studs the studs can flex and the spacer can move about, increasing the chance that the studs can fail due to fatigue. Essentially you are trying to mount the wheel 30mm (or whatever you choose) from the stud's mounting point. If you intend competing with the vehicle in an MSA competition then extended wheel studs aren't allowed and currently the maximum thickness of the wheel spacer is 25mm although I believe that is likely to change next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Hence the comment above about the spacer needing to centre on the hub and also locate the wheel correctly - I agree that some lash up that sat vaguely in the middle and could slide on the hub would not be a good idea at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo-TD5 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Could buy a set, measure all the dimensions then return them?? I was thinking of doing this the other day as I work in a machine shop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Changing the wheel offset is not a difficult or complex operation and I would personally say it seems a safer option than spacers, which just shout "bodge". Have a search for threads on how to reverse rims and apply the same process to just move the centre. The short version is: Carefully cut/machine out the welds holding the centre to the rim Move the centre to the desired place True it up on something (a large diameter bit of pipe machined true for example) Weld the centre back in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluespanner Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Harder to do with aluminium wheels, you must agree FF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Harder to do with aluminium wheels, you must agree FF I'd agree with that, but I'd also wonder who was using alloys for off-roading and if adding spacers to an alloy wheel is any better an idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I use alloys on my 110 which definitely gets used off road no idea why there is so much bias against them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco tony Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 why bother? at this price is it worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobi Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 i run alloys and spacers and i can't see why there would be any problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I think the bolt size is a M16 cant remember what the thread pitch is... (but would be best to go and messure a wheel stud for your self ) But to recap on what people have said... with out trying to sound like i am putting your idea down.. I know some one who made some 30(mm) spacers but aways had problems with them coming undone.. not so much of an issues if only being used offroad. But the last thing you want on the road is to be over taken by your own wheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I use alloys on my 110 which definitely gets used off road no idea why there is so much bias against them For slow speed / relatively gentle stuff there's nothing wrong with them - but high speed / more severe and you may bend a steel rim or crack an alloy. You can hammer a steel rim back into shape and carry on - I've lost count of how long we've spent hitting rims with hammers, logs, axes, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmattley Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 I may just not bother the in that case I mean i could always just make spacers like normal ones with the actual studs attached to them. How do wheel studs actually affix to the hubs anyway? Would it be relatively easy to machine? Or is it beyond an end or ball mill? As for the strength of the rims, my next lot next week will be pirelli scorpion muds on disco steels, so plenty of strength. Are spacers ok to use on motorways and for daily road driving too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 The studs are splined and pressed in I believe, although if memory serves early Series ones were screwed in and were known for coming undone. We use screwed in studs on the portals and they are welded in place once fitted. I think the issue with spacers is they're aluminium and that's soft. Studs live in a cast steel hub, it's chunky and doesn't exactly have much flex in it. With the nuts tightened you are drawing the wheel onto the face of the hub and holding it in place with the friction between the two faces due to the clamping force of the nuts & studs. There is very little length of stud from the face of the hub to the nut. Sticking a nice slice of soft alloy in between adds leverage, potential for flex in the spacer & the now much longer stud, and adds an extra chance for things to move about. Studs-in-the-spacer style I can imagine would work slightly better as you are reducing the factor of deflection across the spacer / length of stud, and many have a lip to help hold the wheel square. It still looks like a bodge though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I made a set of wheel spacers some time back, just to see what was involved.After I had finished I decided that it was infact a better option just to buy a set. It took the best part of two days and a lot of phone calls to get the studs (m16x 1.25 i think) Bearmach sell standard press in wheel studs for £1.00 each. Then you need to search around for a set of small tapered nuts,i sourced some from a trailer manufacture also a pound a pop. The ali cost some where in the regon of £50 so you are looking at £100 all in even before you start machining. Regards wizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmattley Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 Ah sod it! Sounds like a lot of effort and potential risks, I'll just get some offset wheels haha. Thanks for all the info anyway guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 ...would you want normal tapered nuts to hold an alloy wheel spacer on? All LR alloys have different nuts to the steel wheels, presumably for a good reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 ...would you want normal tapered nuts to hold an alloy wheel spacer on? All LR alloys have different nuts to the steel wheels, presumably for a good reason When I drilled out the holes for the standard wheel studs to fit through, I drilled them to the same taper as the nuts. Alloy wheels have a shoulder for the nut to locate on, spacers have a similar taper to steel wheels. wizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 For slow speed / relatively gentle stuff there's nothing wrong with them - but high speed / more severe and you may bend a steel rim or crack an alloy. You can hammer a steel rim back into shape and carry on - I've lost count of how long we've spent hitting rims with hammers, logs, axes, etc. True, I guess there aren't a lot of rocks in the average white grass flat, no problems with bending them on anything as if you hit a large peat at speed it just goes squelch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluespanner Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Joe, I see you are planning to use disco steels? Bear in mind that these dont have as much offset in the first place. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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